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  • When the FBI shoots someone,

    And some on this forum thinks the FBI is infallible and should be trust without question....
    When the FBI shoots someone, including a bystander or hostage, it investigates itself

    AKA, covers up


    HOUSTON — It seemed like a tragic mistake.

    A young father, held for ransom, was shot and killed in January 2018 — not by his kidnappers, but by an FBI agent trying to save him. The agent had fired into a dark room where the hostage had been tied up alone.

    But a dramatic twist came in October: The Houston police chief, whose department investigated the incident, announced that the FBI agent's story didn't add up.

    "Our investigative findings do not support the description of how the shooting occurred by the shooting agent," Chief Art Acevedo told reporters.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/wh...elf/ar-BBTnLV5
    Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
    Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

  • #2
    It's always unwise to self-investigate.

    The FBI has had a great advantage for years because it sets its own Use of Force Continuum, unlike state or local agencies which are bound by the standards established by Federal case law.

    This is especially ironic because the FBI under Bobo was seeking control of state and local agencies through it's demand for a central UoF database. Fortunately, that effort has been rendered toothless under the current administration.
    Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
      And some on this forum thinks the FBI is infallible and should be trust without question....
      When the FBI shoots someone, including a bystander or hostage, it investigates itself

      AKA, covers up


      HOUSTON — It seemed like a tragic mistake.

      A young father, held for ransom, was shot and killed in January 2018 — not by his kidnappers, but by an FBI agent trying to save him. The agent had fired into a dark room where the hostage had been tied up alone.

      But a dramatic twist came in October: The Houston police chief, whose department investigated the incident, announced that the FBI agent's story didn't add up.

      "Our investigative findings do not support the description of how the shooting occurred by the shooting agent," Chief Art Acevedo told reporters.

      https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/wh...elf/ar-BBTnLV5
      Massena will reply that you are attacking US institutions.

      Comment


      • #4
        AJR--I have a question about Houston PD. I'm on another website, mostly composed of very, very conservative hunters/outdoorsmen and they have doubts about the police raid a few weeks ago when a couple was killed and 4 officers wounded. The only link anyone posted was from some what seems to be fringe website. They say the following points...
        1. Although the police say that there were numerous neighbor complaints about drug dealing from the house, no interviewed neighbors say that they noticed anything suspicious.
        2. The police say that their informant made numerous heroin purchases there but yet the raid recovered no heroin, just a small amount of IIRC cocaine (personal use amount) and no large sums of money.
        3. The police who raided were in plainsclothes.
        4. The couple's dog attacked the police and it wasn't until the dog was shot that the homeowners shot back.
        Could it have been the wrong address? Have you heard anything through the grapevine?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by johns624 View Post
          AJR--I have a question about Houston PD. I'm on another website, mostly composed of very, very conservative hunters/outdoorsmen and they have doubts about the police raid a few weeks ago when a couple was killed and 4 officers wounded. The only link anyone posted was from some what seems to be fringe website. They say the following points...
          1. Although the police say that there were numerous neighbor complaints about drug dealing from the house, no interviewed neighbors say that they noticed anything suspicious.
          2. The police say that their informant made numerous heroin purchases there but yet the raid recovered no heroin, just a small amount of IIRC cocaine (personal use amount) and no large sums of money.
          3. The police who raided were in plainsclothes.
          4. The couple's dog attacked the police and it wasn't until the dog was shot that the homeowners shot back.
          Could it have been the wrong address? Have you heard anything through the grapevine?
          What I have heard, and it is scuttlebutt, is that it was a narcotics detail operation (hence the plainclothes).

          It was a 'dry hole', which means they (as you noted) got no heroin. Now, getting a dry hole isn't a crisis; when you are going after smaller dealers the lag time between getting a spy in, and hitting the place with a warrant means that they could have sold out. The spy was rigged for video and audio, with a GPS tracker, so the dealers were going down hard regardless if heroin was found or not.

          They shot the dog, but were wearing raid vests and jackets, so the homeowners are clearly in the wrong.

          It was clearly the right address, they had GPS coords.

          The neighbors will of course say they saw nothing out of place, lest they draw unwanted attention to themselves from the deceased dealers' friends and business associates, who will be deeply interested in finding out who the spy is.

          The question in the grapevine is why the narcs did the deed themselves rather than making use of HPDs full-time SWAT or Street Tactical team.

          But other than that last, the deal is reported via the scuttlebutt as a clean shoot with some possible internal policy issues (not using the assets available).

          HPD is pretty secretive and hands-down the weirdest major agency in Texas.

          Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ljadw View Post

            Massena will reply that you are attacking US institutions.
            He thinks the institutions are more important than the Constitution
            Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
            Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post

              He thinks the institutions are more important than the Constitution


              His loyalties are clear.

              Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post

                He thinks the institutions are more important than the Constitution
                Really? Where did you come up with that nonsense? If, like you and Trump, US institutions that were established under the Constitution, who then is lessening the importance of the Constitution?

                Mindless and inaccurate comments such as yours here certainly don't contribute positively to the discussion.
                We are not now that strength which in old days
                Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post



                  His loyalties are clear.
                  Yes, they are quite clear. I swore an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic and fought to defend it. Maybe your loyalties are unclear to yourself or anyone else. Your repeated false accusations are getting just a little old. Perhaps you've been defending Trump for so long no matter what he says and does that you have adopted his lack of veracity?
                  We are not now that strength which in old days
                  Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                  Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                  To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Massena View Post

                    Really? Where did you come up with that nonsense? If, like you and Trump, US institutions that were established under the Constitution, who then is lessening the importance of the Constitution?

                    Mindless and inaccurate comments such as yours here certainly don't contribute positively to the discussion.
                    Look, the turtle stuck his head out of the shell. My plan worked!
                    Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                    Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post

                      Look, the turtle stuck his head out of the shell. My plan worked!
                      Sorry, my last name is not McConnell.

                      It is fun, however, to see you repeatedly stick your foot in your mouth...
                      We are not now that strength which in old days
                      Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                      Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                      To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post


                        But other than that last, the deal is reported via the scuttlebutt as a clean shoot with some possible internal policy issues (not using the assets available).

                        HPD is pretty secretive and hands-down the weirdest major agency in Texas.
                        Thanks. Much as I expected. It's funny how ultra-rights fear and hate the police as much as the ultra-lefts, even though they consider themselves "patriots".

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by johns624 View Post
                          Thanks. Much as I expected. It's funny how ultra-rights fear and hate the police as much as the ultra-lefts, even though they consider themselves "patriots".
                          It is a common rule, practiced in every state, county and city that when an incident takes place involving any altercation resulting in weapons being used resulting in injuries or death of suspects or officers, other law enforcement agencies conduct the investigation.
                          The FBI operates under different rules.
                          They can enter another agencies jurisdiction and answer only to themselves.
                          This should cause all Americans to take pause and be concerned about abuse of power, the chain of evidence, the integrity of the justice system and the FBI itself.
                          Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                          Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post

                            It is a common rule, practiced in every state, county and city that when an incident takes place involving any altercation resulting in weapons being used resulting in injuries or death of suspects or officers, other law enforcement agencies conduct the investigation.
                            The FBI operates under different rules.
                            They can enter another agencies jurisdiction and answer only to themselves.
                            This should cause all Americans to take pause and be concerned about abuse of power, the chain of evidence, the integrity of the justice system and the FBI itself.
                            I've felt that way ever since (especially during) the reign of J Edgar Hoover. He was an evil man.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by johns624 View Post

                              I've felt that way ever since (especially during) the reign of J Edgar Hoover. He was an evil man.
                              I agree, I don’t believe ever Agent that joined the FBI was or is evil, but the agency was Hoover’s Empire. Blackmail of powerful political leaders and criminal syndicates was his trade.
                              Has it ever really changed?
                              Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                              Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

                              Comment

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