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The Problem With Soft Socialism

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  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

    THIRD TIME: I NEVER SAID THAT CAPITALISM CAUSED THE POTATO FAMINE. I SAID IT CAUSED TO IRISH TO FLEE THE COUNTRY. WITHOUT CAPITALISM/GREED, THE IRISH COULD HAVE WEATHERED THE FAMINE.

    GOOD GRIEF...
    Actually I could make the argument that capitalism saved lives. Here's the thing: before the industrial revolution if you were a tenant farmer and lost your land, you were @#$&ed. Learning a trade took time and few had the time to give to an adult laborer. There weren't many opportunities for those who lost their land. Capitalism otoh gave us the industrial revolution which gave us factories which meant a means of employing someone with minimal training time. It also meant an explosion of job openings.

    Capitalism made America capable of absorbing immigrants and giving them jobs. Without capitalism there wouldn't be those opportunities for starving migrants. They would have been SOL. And yes the system would need a growing set of regulations to prevent worker exploration but even at it's crude beginnings, it offered opportunity.

    Capitalism made weathering the famine POSSIBLE by allowing the Irish to find employment elsewhere when their opportunities at home went south. Without the growth of industry they would have been high and dry with nothing at all.
    A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

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    • It was indifference to the Irish by the British that prevented them from giving aid to the Irish starving to death then it was capitalism that killed the Irish.

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      • Originally posted by Emtos View Post

        Biggest empire in the world cannot feed a couple of millions of people at a stone threw from home ? Ridiculous.
        It's harder than you might think. The logistics of famine relief are tricky NOW. To say nothing of the challenges when you're living in the age of seasonal food availability where rail building has only just started picking up steam and a lot of goods still travel at the speed of canal ferries. That said it's a myth that the British didn't try to do anything about it:

        http://scalar.usc.edu/works/star-of-...ernment-relief

        But the problem was complicated and the famine especially severe. Fortunately capitalism provided new jobs for those who moved.
        A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

        Comment


        • I didn't said that they didn't tried anything. It was tried but clearly not enough. The famine lasted for a considerable period and it was possible to buy from other countries if such was the goal.

          Capitalism didn't provided jobs. There were jobs everywhere in this era and unemployement was nearly non-existent.
          There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

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          • Originally posted by Emtos View Post
            I didn't said that they didn't tried anything.
            Actually:

            Originally posted by Emtos View Post

            Why then the shipments of good potatoes, grand and other food weren't sent to the Irish ? See also the answer of MM.

            And food was sent to the Irish. Thus you are in error. No point in trying to hide it.


            It was tried but clearly not enough. The famine lasted for a considerable period and it was possible to buy from other countries if such was the goal.

            Capitalism didn't provided jobs. There were jobs everywhere in this era and unemployement was nearly non-existent.
            Capitalism didn't make the jobs of the industrial revolution? Those factories weren't built by the state, you know. You either don't understand what capitalism is or you are laughably ignorant of history.
            Last edited by Pirateship1982; 11 Feb 19, 19:47.
            A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

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            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

              THIRD TIME: I NEVER SAID THAT CAPITALISM CAUSED THE POTATO FAMINE. I SAID IT CAUSED TO IRISH TO FLEE THE COUNTRY. WITHOUT CAPITALISM/GREED, THE IRISH COULD HAVE WEATHERED THE FAMINE.

              GOOD GRIEF...
              I said:


              Can we blame the Irish potato famine on capitalism too?



              You said:

              "
              Actually, we can.
              " Followed by a discussion of how the landlords were evil.
              I think it was a reasonable interpretation of "We can" (blame the potato famine on capitalism)
              Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

              Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

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              • Originally posted by Emtos View Post

                It did. Under socialism those people would get help.
                Again, you continue to try and change the subject to how people reacted to the famine.
                In other words, you can't refute my point but don't want to admit it.
                Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

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                • Originally posted by Emtos View Post

                  Russia is struggling financially because of capitalism. Under USSR it was just fine. China is performing great because of iron fist of the party coupled with a total disregard for individual rights and freedoms.


                  I get it now, you are using absurdity to explain absurdity...
                  Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                  Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

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                  • Russia, under/as the USSR was FINE financially? Someone has been making up too much fake history. The USSR was the world's largest and most powerful 3rd world country of all time. It collapsed in on itself because of itself.
                    The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the Second only applies to muskets?

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                    • Originally posted by Hida Akechi View Post
                      Russia, under/as the USSR was FINE financially? Someone has been making up too much fake history. The USSR was the world's largest and most powerful 3rd world country of all time. It collapsed in on itself because of itself.
                      The next thing heís going to claim is that the USSR was a pioneering green leader because citizens were required to use both sides of each toilet tissue.
                      Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                      Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Snowshoveler View Post
                        It was indifference to the Irish by the British that prevented them from giving aid to the Irish starving to death then it was capitalism that killed the Irish.
                        There was aid as 87 % of the population survived the famine .

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                        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                          Never said it did. Said, again, that it presented an opportunity for capitalist landlords to legally get rid of tenant farmers in order to change to more profitable cattle raising, which required very few people to watch over large herds. Therefore, those dirty, nasty capitalists made no effort to help the tenant farmers survive through the blight, but evicted them instead.

                          Cause and effect.

                          BTW- I'm descended from some of those people. County Roscommon.
                          Eviction made them survive

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                          • The problem is that the history of the famine is obfuscated by a lot of myths, such as the absent British landlords .

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                            • Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post

                              Again, you continue to try and change the subject to how people reacted to the famine.
                              In other words, you can't refute my point but don't want to admit it.
                              Reaction to famine IS part of the famine. People starved and died not because potatoes were lost. They died because they had no food. And they get no food because capitalist government didn't sent it.
                              There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post

                                The next thing heís going to claim is that the USSR was a pioneering green leader because citizens were required to use both sides of each toilet tissue.
                                There was no toilet tissue.
                                There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

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