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  • Tijuana one of the deadliest cities on Earth

    Which came first, The War on Drugs or the violence of drug gangs? Does the answer may be a moot point for the undertakers the survivors. Meth and murder: A new kind of drug war has made Tijuana one of the deadliest cities on Earth

    A record 2,518 people were killed here in 2018 — nearly seven times the total in 2012. With 140 killings per 100,000 people, Tijuana is now one of the deadliest cities in the world.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...rth/ar-BBT9xWq
    Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
    Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

  • #2
    The thing about Mexico is that you have existing OC groups, cultural and political groups, and outside OC groups, all with a history of violence coming into collision course in a country with a traditional of a weak, corrupt government.
    Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

    Comment


    • #3
      Heaven won’t take em and Hell is full. That pretty much sums it up. Between the gangs, the feds, the city councils and city cops, state cops and cartels, it’s turning into a murderous quagmire.
      Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
      Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
        Heaven won’t take em and Hell is full. That pretty much sums it up. Between the gangs, the feds, the city councils and city cops, state cops and cartels, it’s turning into a murderous quagmire.
        And I don't see it getting any better. Even if Mexico and every First World nation legalized all narcotics the problem will continue. Something like a third of all oil production is stolen each year, often by force.
        Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

        Comment


        • #5
          When people raise this question I always think of Pancho Villa.

          South of the border it is hard to tell the good guys from the bad guys which is part of the romance culture that makes it hard to dissuade ordinary people from silently supporting gansters. That said I think we can focus on a few issues to unravel the paradoxes.

          The first issue is Nepotism. Nepotism leads to all sorts of corruption. Kickbacks and extortion is simply the next step in a society dominated by Nepotism. I believe Nepotism is one of the reasons that Spanish colonies in general have fared so poorly. Kickbacks and extortion by government employees leads to a general unlawfulness because the people will see little difference between official thieves and bandits.

          There is also a great deal of racism against native Americans south of the border. Racism tends to corrupt the soul of a nation because it devalues human life, a similar environment corrupted the legal system in the southern U.S. . One of the reasons that the Catholic Church in Mexico lost it's legitimacy was the collaboration between church officials and financial interests that tended to be of Spanish ancestry. The early enslavement of large numbers of natives and the failure to integrate natives into the economic system has always left a large pool of would be "revolutionaries".

          Climate and disease may also play a role in the failure of countries south of the border to develop stable governments. It certainly was a factor in the development of Africa. Mild climates seem to encourage a laissez faire attitude not to be confused with laziness. Contrasting the problems in temperate Europe to Northern Europe you can see that where life is somewhat easier stoicism is less common. The idea of Latin passion may be nothing more than the opportunity to put off the more unpleasant aspects of life and indulge in emotional pursuits. Geography also plays a role as countries south of the U.S. border are simply further away from the centers of commerce that developed in Europe and trade with the orient is discourage by ocean currents.

          The unequal distribution of wealth between the U.S. and south of the border has always been a moral hazard for those living to the south. The drug war has simply made it more attractive to enter the illegal markets in the U.S. because the home grown competition has been suppressed effectively. Mexico has never had a handle on law and order anywhere near to the extent of it's northern neighbors. If the U.S. had let the domestic criminals handle the situation the Mexican cartels would never have a got a foot hold in U.S. markets. Once they had a foot hold and the money started to flow it threatened the whole social structure of Mexico. By the time the Mexican government reacted the Cartels were as rich and powerful as the government in some ways. Relatively wealthy warlords will always produce escalating violence. A similar pattern can be seen in Europe in the Middle Ages and in China when there was a weak emperor. The war on drugs also created an environment in which the most desperate and dangerous criminals rose to the top.

          Some parallels can be drawn between the British East India Company opium trade in China and present day drug trade. The British government did even less to dissuade the flow of opium to China than Mexico is doing to stop the flow of drugs to the U.S. Although the East India company was not directly involved in opium trade it had very little means to end the unequal trade balance where silver was flowing into China potentially weakening British currency. The Mexican government sees itself in an equally unfair trade arrangement. It's answer is to "colonize" the U.S. in ways similar to the European enclaves in China. The Mexican "colonists" send enormous amounts of "silver" back to Mexico. Along with the "remittances" the drug money helps to stabilize the Mexican currency. The cost is that all sorts of unsavory characters develop inordinate influence. The U.S. government has proven to be almost as unable to stem the drug trade as China was in stopping the flow of opium. Ever increasing draconian steps to end the trade has actually weakened the rule of law in the U.S. The U.S. now has approximately 7 million people in prison or on parole at a cost of around 70 billion dollars. The current proposed budget contains an additional 30 billion dollars for drug enforcement. If you include the cost to local law enforcement the total cost could be twice that. It is not so much that the money is being poorly spent but it is a measure of the seriousness with which the government takes the problem. Like China the U.S. seems to be fighting a losing war. In China the problem has never really been solved.

          The Mao Zedong government is generally credited with eradicating both consumption and production of opium during the 1950s using unrestrained repression and social reform.[9][10] Ten million addicts were forced into compulsory treatment, dealers were executed, and opium-producing regions were planted with new crops. Remaining opium production shifted south of the Chinese border into the Golden Triangle region.[41] The remnant opium trade primarily served Southeast Asia, but spread to American soldiers during the Vietnam War, with 20 percent of soldiers regarding themselves as addicted during the peak of the epidemic in 1971. In 2003, China was estimated to have four million regular drug users and one million registered drug addicts.
          Drugs of course are not the only problem. Some cartels profits from people smuggling are as great as from drug smuggling, a kind of slave trade. An Immoral trade that is also more than tolerated by the Mexican government. Criminals will always find a new market so focusing to heavily on the drug war is probably misleading.

          Gang violence during prohibition continued as criminal organization moved into drugs and other rackets. Legalizing drugs and ending the drug war would not entirely eliminate the problem. The best bet is to do as Trump tried to do in the recent trade deal and raise wages in Mexico. In the U.S. the opioid epidemic also seems to be associated with a failing middle class. It also seems to be the case that the Mafia has declined as Italians have moved out of ethnic "ghetto" and gained economic status. Traditional values of family, jobs and integrated communities are always associated with marginalization of criminal gangs. The liberal solution of extending government support has been tried and proven to be largely a failure. That said corporatism is so entrenched that the real income inequality between the productive middle class and corporate elites, especially in a globalized market place, seems like an impossible task to correct. The demonization of Trump's policies in favor of socialism is proof that the vast majority of people have no idea how to build a stable prosperous society.
          We hunt the hunters

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          • #6
            Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
            When people raise this question I always think of ...amazing drivel cut for space...
            What an astounding load of racist, biased, uneducated drek.

            Mexico has issues because the Spanish came in, smashed the local governments into dust, and established a colony designed solely for exploitation. Unlike the USA, where you had waves of European colonists with very similar cultural ties building a unified society when they pushed west, the Spanish simply set a colonial government network across a broad area which was home to a wide variety of people, all of whom having issues with other indigenous groups.

            When the locals managed to force out the Spanish, they found themselves with domestic troubles from within (the aforementioned indigenous squabbles) and without (The Comanche, Apache, and other northern tribes).

            As is common for recently liberated colonies, they had too little money, too little national identity, and too many troubles. They chose to invite Americans into Texas because Americans had shown a willingness to stand up to the Comanche, at least in the eastern and east-central portions of the state.

            Unfortunately, within ten years the Americans revolted and made an independent Republic. Just as Mexico was ready to re-take Texas, nine years after the revolt, Texas joined the USA, and war broke out between Mexico and the USA which cost Mexico a huge amount of land.

            The chaos following the war led in less than a decade to a French-backed Emperor and civil war, which ended only after the USA starting moving vast numbers of troops to the border with the intent of ejecting the French by force.

            From the late 1860s until the early 1900s Mexico's economy took off; the peso and the dollar were equal in value for decades. By 1910, however, 90% of all industry was owned by foreigners, 70%+ of the land was owned by absentee landlords, and the peons had literally no future.

            So eleven years of incredibly destructive civil war broke out, complete with a lengthy incursion by US troops which is still resented. The civil war was resolved by treaty, which did little beyond ending the worst of the fighting. Further rebellions, much smaller in scale, continue to today.

            Now, once again, we are seeing Mexico returning to the state it was in back in 1910: the bulk of industry is owned or controlled by outsiders; land is primarily owned by absentee stockholders, and the peso is worth less each day.

            The native squabbles interrupted by the Spanish still smolder; regional squabbles, particularly in the south, remind everyone that 'Mexico' is simply a term applied by invaders to an area without consideration for culture or ethnic considerations.

            Society is also split between the 'Spanish' (persons of mainly white ancestry who dominate the upper and middle class), Mezzios ( mixed Indio/Spanish) who make up the middle/lower classes, and Indios, who tend to be at the bottom rung of society.

            In addition there is a century+ of tension between the Mexican middle class and Chinese immigrants which has resulted in mass violence on several occasions.

            Plus there are problems with illegal immigrants from Central and South America.

            So: a country with a weak identity, a governmental system born out of compromise between revolutionary factions less than a century old, severe racial and cultural issues, a long traditional of resistance to the central government and hostility to outsiders, particularly foreigners, a persistent 'brain drain', and a historic sense of impermanence.

            All this before you add a plague of criminal cartels, both domestic and foreign.
            Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
              Which came first, The War on Drugs or the violence of drug gangs? Does the answer may be a moot point for the undertakers the survivors. Meth and murder: A new kind of drug war has made Tijuana one of the deadliest cities on Earth

              A record 2,518 people were killed here in 2018 — nearly seven times the total in 2012. With 140 killings per 100,000 people, Tijuana is now one of the deadliest cities in the world.

              https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...rth/ar-BBT9xWq
              I grew up in Southern California in the 1950s and 1960s and it was common knowledge then that Tijuana was not a good place to visit.

              Comment


              • #8
                Nepotism = Trumps White House with his family and close friends as adviser of on the Cabinet.

                That cannot be denied even by the most rabid Trump supporter
                "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                  Nepotism = Trumps White House with his family and close friends as adviser of on the Cabinet.

                  That cannot be denied even by the most rabid Trump supporter
                  What has that to do with the crime and corruption in Mexico? Even Cancun, with its private security and secured border, is becoming dangerous as a tourist attraction where you are told by the hotel staff "don't walk on the beach after dark."
                  “Breaking News,”

                  “Something irrelevant in your life just happened and now we are going to blow it all out of proportion for days to keep you distracted from what's really going on.”

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
                    Which came first, The War on Drugs or the violence of drug gangs? Does the answer may be a moot point for the undertakers the survivors. Meth and murder: A new kind of drug war has made Tijuana one of the deadliest cities on Earth

                    A record 2,518 people were killed here in 2018 — nearly seven times the total in 2012. With 140 killings per 100,000 people, Tijuana is now one of the deadliest cities in the world.

                    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...rth/ar-BBT9xWq
                    But, of course, none of that violence and filth ever sneaks across our border.
                    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                      Nepotism = Trumps White House with his family and close friends as adviser of on the Cabinet.

                      That cannot be denied even by the most rabid Trump supporter
                      Seems someone had a little too much fun and the beer garden
                      Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                      Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post

                        What an astounding load of racist, biased, uneducated drek.
                        Yes of course I'm racist against the white European Spanish.

                        Your hypothesis doesn't explain why Spain itself remained a basket case until it adopted a more liberal democracy or why racism remains a serious problem in Mexico. Nor does it account for why Spain Italy and Greece share, if to a lesser degree, the problems of Mexico.

                        You go to some extent to point out the post colonial problems of tribalism but fail to acknowledge that tribalism itself is the problem. What is a criminal cartel if not a tribe without the ethnic origins.

                        The romance with ethnic Identity that characterizes much of history and warfare in Europe explains in part why Europe took so long to recover after the collapse of the Roman empire. You would have us believe that pointing out the same kinds of ethnic Identity problems in Mexico is racists and that the associated problems are entirely a result of colonialism.

                        Granted liberal democracy is a fairly recent experiment and didn't end slavery or genocide against native Americans in the U.S. Nor did it prevent the growth of separate cultural identities that lead to civil war. But it also didn't prevent Asians from being successful in the U.S. despite racial barriers. The problem with throwing around the accusation of racism is the connection between culture and ethnic Identity. One of the things that delayed full integration of Irish and to a lesser extent Italians into the economic mainstream as compared to Asians is culture.








                        We hunt the hunters

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                          Nepotism = Trumps White House with his family and close friends as adviser of on the Cabinet.

                          That cannot be denied even by the most rabid Trump supporter
                          Yes I have pointed out on several occasions how unhappy I was about that. Trump may very well have fired his family if not for emotional barriers. Nepotism is a corrupting influence in hierarchies of competency.
                          We hunt the hunters

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post

                            Seems someone had a little too much fun and the beer garden
                            Beer is healthy but that Kool Aid of yours is dangerous to all
                            "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                            Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                            you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post

                              Beer is healthy but that Kool Aid of yours is dangerous to all
                              Why don’t you stop lobbying short burst and give an in-depth analysts of the news article
                              Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                              Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

                              Comment

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