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  • #46
    Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post

    If I may borrow your quote for a moment:



    Keep showing how thin skinned you are.



    Good! Until a libertarian wins, or an honest republican like Rand Paul, I will not be happy.



    Ironically, you're the one threatening to report people for their speech. I've been called everything from racist to idiot and I've never reported a member. Man up.



    Again. Good!



    My voting history and support speaks for itself. But keep on with your baseless assumptions. You won't find one post from me that's anti-freedom. From 2nd Amendment to gay rights I have always argued in defense of freedom.



    Now you've gone full crazy.


    what has the National Sanitation Agency have t do with this, anywhere or how or way??
    ay??
    The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
      What I have noted here is that a very familiar pattern emerges. The people that strongly dislike Trump are focused on the means not the results. We could have a long debate over the ends justifying the means but first you have to agree on what the ends should be and even more importantly if you are talking about short term or long term ends.

      Since this is a military forum you can think in terms of who you sacrifice to save your army. Under Obama who followed a corporatist and globalist agenda it was the middle class, rust belt and fly over states that were to be sacrificed in keeping with a trend that is pretty much the pattern in Europe. Obama had some pretty good arguments in who was to be sacrificed. Automation was destined to destroy most of the jobs he ignored regardless of policy. Globalism and interdependence is the nature of the modern economy. Corporatism is tailored made to work with the kind of soft socialism he preferred and many Americans expect. Nationalism would seem to be the natural enemy of this agenda. The question that was never asked is why did we find ourselves in retreat in the first place. What were the ends or objectives or in the analogy to a military perspective the battle being fought for and in what war. In Obama's mind I think that the war he was pursuing was social justice. The decolonization of not only the U.S. but the world. He saw the clingers with their guns and Bibles as the rear guard of already compromised people who were going to fight the losing battle with or without him. Like George Soros, and many intellectuals Obama had a very pessimistic view of the future and was going to salvage out of the battle that was transforming the economy social justice for those traditionally oppressed. Those that had been made vulnerable by centuries of oppression. It was just accepted that environmental concerns, demographic changes, foreign competition, the post industrial revolution and inequality had preordained that the battle to maintain continual growth was lost. If the battle was lost then we just as well focus on righting previous wrongs to win the war for a sustainable future with some elements of equality.

      Trump with his make America great again was obviously deranged according to the intellectuals. Global warming made almost any economic gain a negative. People, meaning the deplorables, were simply going to have to learn to get along with less and to share more. Share not only with other Americans but the world at large. Inequality between nations was not only immoral to the Obama's but dangerous. Unfortunately almost everyone of the immutable truths they held as conditions hindering growth were simply wrong. Global warming was proving to be grossly exaggerated. Leading from behind and letting nations such as Iran and China take their natural place in the world Trump has proven to be not only unnecessary but dangerous. Immigration has proven not only bad for recipient nations but the donors as well and inequality was being increased not diminished. Being sober and judicious was not making NATO stronger but weaker. Trump proved that the key to corporatism which is government regulation was really holding the country back not making it more stable. Trump proved that giving minorities economic opportunities was a more powerful tool than welfare in ending racial unrest. Trump has proven that it isn't hate speech and inequality that causes tension but lack of opportunity. In many ways the pessimism of the intellectual class was not grounded in reality but was at least in part the reason the battle was being lost. The Obama's and intellectuals were fighting the wrong war. Trump's war is not about equality but equal opportunity and it is the only one that has ever proven to be worth fighting for. The dominance hierarchy was never the enemy it was what produced the abundance that people have enjoyed for 50 years. Does it need pushed, prodded, redirected and occasionally restrained? Of course it does but the psychological crisis in the west requires that optimism first be restored.

      The main failure of the old intellectual school on the right that has been dragged kicking and screaming toward socialism by the intellectual left is lack of vision. It has been thoroughly demoralized by the illusions created by the left's unending stream of pessimism. Instead of offering better regulation it simply defaulted to the only dogma that all regulation is bad in the face of the legitimate concerns that the left has raised. The left's solution of redistribution to end inequality for example was meet with the absurd suggestion that income inequality was not a problem. The key here is that for whatever reason the right has been unable to articulate that the problems we face do not have solutions but are rather at the same time constant and relative. Poverty for example has been more or less eliminated but the goal keeps shifting as the definition is relative. The right has simply been unable to paint progress in the positive light of slow and steady progress while the left has pressed them into accepting every problem as a crisis.

      The left's major flaw is that all their solutions are short term. You can redistribute wealth until it runs out. You can allow unrestricted immigration until every place is equally poor. You can build alternative energy until the cost smothers the capability to meet demand and produce more of the same. You can give women equal pay but you can't make them work 60 hours a week to maintain the same productivity of their crazy male counterparts. You can have affirmative action but you can't make it fair and maintain a competitive environment. You can have unrestricted trade until China owns all your debt. You can treat Iran as an equal but you can't make them respect you or behave rationally. For all the sophistication the left claims most of their solutions are simple minded and short term or simply insane such as a post industrial economy.

      The "morality" of solutions is not defined by immediate consequences but it's long term efficacy. Socialism worked well in Valenzuela for a year or two. Welfare solved absolute poverty but destroyed communities and is proving unsubstantial. Democracy was doing well until there were more tax beneficiaries than donors. Immigration was great until their was no assimilation into the system that created the wealth that attracted immigration. Environmentalism is great until poverty reduces people to burning trees again.

      It is easy to lose sight of the fact that some means may seem immoral in the short run but often that is just a delusion created by a lack of optimism and vision.
      You have it half correct. The Left, much like religion of old, sees a problem. They then settle on a solution that makes sense to them in the superficial either because those most respected by the Left or those on the Left see the solution as good and acceptable. All that remains once the problem and solution are defined is finding an acceptable path between the two.
      That path can ignore common sense. It can toss economics and practicality off a skyscraper. The path becomes the dogma that defines how the problem will be solved.

      In historical terms, it's why religion for centuries suppressed, even killed, anyone who dared try and prove the Earth wasn't the center of the universe and everything.
      Gorebal Warming does this today. Solar and wind as energy sources have proved economically infeasible. They simply can't supply our energy needs at anything close to an economically rational price. Doesn't matter to the Left. It's the answer to the problem and it gets from there to the solution. Nuclear be damned. Natural gas? It's defined as part of the problem and therefore unacceptable.

      Mass transit using various rail systems has been defined by the Left as the accepted means to move people around. Doesn't matter how inefficient or costly it is, it has become the dogma between a problem and a solution.

      Health care costs are too high? The solution is government run health care. Any alternative is discarded as heresy.

      This is the problem on the Left. There is no rational or logical process involved getting from problems to solutions. Instead, there's simply an almost religious dogma that is created for each problem and solution set. And, just like in organized religion, anyone that dare question the dogma is beaten down or excommunicated.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

        You have it half correct. The Left, much like religion of old, sees a problem. They then settle on a solution that makes sense to them in the superficial either because those most respected by the Left or those on the Left see the solution as good and acceptable. All that remains once the problem and solution are defined is finding an acceptable path between the two.
        That path can ignore common sense. It can toss economics and practicality off a skyscraper. The path becomes the dogma that defines how the problem will be solved.

        In historical terms, it's why religion for centuries suppressed, even killed, anyone who dared try and prove the Earth wasn't the center of the universe and everything.
        Gorebal Warming does this today. Solar and wind as energy sources have proved economically infeasible. They simply can't supply our energy needs at anything close to an economically rational price. Doesn't matter to the Left. It's the answer to the problem and it gets from there to the solution. Nuclear be damned. Natural gas? It's defined as part of the problem and therefore unacceptable.

        Mass transit using various rail systems has been defined by the Left as the accepted means to move people around. Doesn't matter how inefficient or costly it is, it has become the dogma between a problem and a solution.

        Health care costs are too high? The solution is government run health care. Any alternative is discarded as heresy.

        This is the problem on the Left. There is no rational or logical process involved getting from problems to solutions. Instead, there's simply an almost religious dogma that is created for each problem and solution set. And, just like in organized religion, anyone that dare question the dogma is beaten down or excommunicated.
        Clarify the half part?
        We hunt the hunters

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post

          Well, their world is in indeed in disarray: they hate America, and seeing things improve for this nation burns them to the very place their soul used to reside.
          It is not that the Media hates America, but that its collective guilt complex is so overriding that the effect is the same.

          Tuebor

          Comment


          • #50
            And what 'guilt complex' is that? More psychobabble?
            We are not now that strength which in old days
            Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
            Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
            To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post

              Clarify the half part?
              You have the pattern followed and the means the Left uses down, but not the reasons behind them. For the Left, politics and things like Social and Economic Justice are a religion. Like devout Muslims or evangelical Christians who make religion a central part of their lives and inject it into everything, the serious Leftist does the same with politics.
              This is why the Left can't give an inch or compromise on anything with the rest of the political spectrum. It would be like asking a Christian or Muslim to only accept 90% of their religious beliefs. They can't give ground because it compromises their innate fundamental religious beliefs in Leftist dogma.
              It's sort of like "Marx said it. I believe it. That ends it," paraphrasing what a devout Christian might say. (God said it. I believe it. That ends it.)

              Comment


              • #52
                Trump is definitely having an 'impact'-a negative one.

                Anyone watch or listen to the hearing yesterday?
                We are not now that strength which in old days
                Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Massena View Post
                  Trump is definitely having an 'impact'-a negative one.

                  Anyone watch or listen to the hearing yesterday?
                  A convicted liar grasping for straws is what I saw yesterday.

                  Interesting yesterday he claimed that Trump is a racist....

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X13ndMfw4aU

                  In the video go to the 5:45 mark....

                  When is this convicted liar.....telling the truth?

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Massena View Post
                    Trump is definitely having an 'impact'-a negative one.

                    Anyone watch or listen to the hearing yesterday?
                    No, because it's totally irrelevant. Cohen will say nothing to Congress he hasn't already said to Mueller or in federal court. The only thing different this time is he's doing it in front of the cameras. It's pure Stalin mixed with some Kafka. That is, it's a show trial to implicate Trump in something, anything.

                    Worse, the MSM has so awfully botched their coverage that it hurts. Their overt and gross partisan coverage when compared to what they covered with Trump's meeting in Vietnam shows just how horribly biased they really are. For example, in the local paper The Arizona Republic, hardly a truly Left leaning paper, there were three long articles covering Cohen's testimony. Two took up the whole front page with another on page 8.
                    Also on page 8 right below the Cohen article there, was a short completely negative and badly biased column about Trump's meeting with Kim.

                    So, why should I watch a Stalinesque show trial by Democrats in Congress when the outcome is clearly already known? Why should I follow MSM coverage when they aren't even trying to be unbiased? Watching a convicted lawyer... err... liar-- well, as if there were a difference-- testify in front of a bunch of half wits, morons, and liars-- and that's being generous to Congress-- is a complete waste of my time.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Nichols View Post

                      A convicted liar grasping for straws is what I saw yesterday.

                      Interesting yesterday he claimed that Trump is a racist....


                      When is this convicted liar.....telling the truth?
                      And when are you and other Trump supporters going to admit that aTrump is a pathological liar? And Cohen worked for him for ten years, doing Trump's unethical and most probably illegal bidding...

                      And Trump is a racist.
                      We are not now that strength which in old days
                      Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                      Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                      To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

                        You have the pattern followed and the means the Left uses down, but not the reasons behind them. For the Left, politics and things like Social and Economic Justice are a religion. Like devout Muslims or evangelical Christians who make religion a central part of their lives and inject it into everything, the serious Leftist does the same with politics.
                        This is why the Left can't give an inch or compromise on anything with the rest of the political spectrum. It would be like asking a Christian or Muslim to only accept 90% of their religious beliefs. They can't give ground because it compromises their innate fundamental religious beliefs in Leftist dogma.
                        It's sort of like "Marx said it. I believe it. That ends it," paraphrasing what a devout Christian might say. (God said it. I believe it. That ends it.)
                        I was trying to address a more universal issue. The prevalence of short term solutions and the tendency to double down without reevaluation.

                        I see Trump as a short term solution. Obama had taken us so far off the tracks towards a globalist agenda that balance needed restoring. Obama had bought into the intersectional decolonization delusion in his youth and never out grew it. Trump is busily dismantling the bricks that hold that delusion up.
                        We hunt the hunters

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Massena View Post

                          And when are you and other Trump supporters going to admit that aTrump is a pathological liar?
                          What links can you provide that show Trump is a pathological liar? Something other than the left leaning MSM that have their panties bunched up because he won.

                          Originally posted by Massena View Post
                          And Cohen worked for him for ten years, doing Trump's unethical and most probably illegal bidding...
                          …..and Cohen was not given a place in his administration

                          Originally posted by Massena View Post
                          And Trump is a racist.
                          Multiple minorities have come forward saying that he is not a racist. What do you have that proves he is a racist?

                          Unlike some people, I believe in innocent until proven guilty.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Massena View Post

                            And when are you and other Trump supporters going to admit that aTrump is a pathological liar? And Cohen worked for him for ten years, doing Trump's unethical and most probably illegal bidding...

                            And Trump is a racist.
                            6 Takeaways From Cohen’s Hill Testimony About Trump
                            ...
                            Soon to serve a prison sentence for, among other things, lying to Congress, Michael Cohen took a parting shot Wednesday at his old boss, President Donald Trump, in testimony on Capitol Hill.

                            “He’s a racist, he’s a con man, and he’s a cheat,” Cohen told the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee.

                            Democrats on the committee said they wanted to get to the truth, while Republicans on the committee pointed to Cohen’s credibility problems.

                            “The last time I appeared before Congress, I came to protect Mr. Trump. Today, I’m here to tell the truth,” Cohen said.

                            He later followed up: “I have lied, but I am not a liar. I have done bad things, but I am not a bad man. I have ‘fixed’ things, but I am no longer your ‘fixer,’ Mr. Trump.”

                            Cohen’s testimony assailed Trump’s character and even accused the president of possible crimes, but he firmly disputed unsubstantiated claims cited by House Democrats that went off subject. Those included whether Trump had fathered a “love child,” whether he paid for any medical procedures for women who were not in his family, and whether he assaulted his wife in an elevator.

                            Cohen said all of those were false rumors.

                            Here are six key takeaways from a contentious hearing.

                            1. Trump’s Presidential Run ‘Was My Idea’
                            ...
                            2. “I Wouldn’t Use the Word ‘Colluding’” With Russia
                            ...
                            3. White House Job
                            ...
                            4. Alleged Racist Comments
                            ...
                            5. Paying Hush Money
                            ...
                            6. Vietnam Irony
                            ...

                            https://www.dailysignal.com/2019/02/...9pYlREMjZVcSJ9



                            TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

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