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  • #31
    Environmental laws prevent building firebreaks that amount to "roads."
    OF course you missed were the current fires jump major roads, even 4 lane highways. Ignore the facts and keep on dreaming.

    Finland is also half submerge with thousands of lakes. Of course in your mind that couldn't play a major roll in their fire fighting.
    Lakes in Finland


    If we take into consideration the number of official lakes that are claimed by a country, Finland would overtake Canada by a large margin. According to Wikipedia, Finland has 187,888 official lakes that each have an area of over 500 meters squared. Approximately 57,000 of these lakes have an area of over 10,000 meters squared. These statistics have caused debate over which country has the highest number of lakes. If an individual bases the number off of officially listed lakes, Finland has the most lakes.
    Last edited by Half Pint John; 21 Nov 18, 04:07.
    "Ask not what your country can do for you"

    Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

    you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
      BTW, DJT has a far better GaC-GaG than "community organizer" BHO ever did on this issue and we had several rather destructive fires during his so-called "watch".
      community organizer compared to a what? A suckask Reality TV Show which had nothing to do with reality

      GaC-GaG , translate, even Google is mystified.

      Gag, A gag is designed to prevent speech or the subject making noise. Only if his foot counts as a gag.
      Last edited by Half Pint John; 21 Nov 18, 04:10.
      "Ask not what your country can do for you"

      Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

      you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
        According to Wikipedia, Finland has 187,888 official lakes that each have an area of over 500 meters squared.
        If Minnesota is "the land of 10,000 lakes"



        then what does that make Finland?

        All kidding aside, and germane to this topic, I'd think that Finland and Minnesota share a common geology: earth scoured by retreating glaciers at the end of the last ice age 10,000 years ago engendered countless depressions in which water could pool and form lakes. I'm thinking here of formations similar to NYS' Finger Lakes.



        https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/im...e-finger-lakes

        I suspect that Finland has similar geology, formed by retreating glaciers ten millenia ago. California, lying at a more southern latitude, wasn't so scoured by ice age glaciers, so the likelihood of a multitude lakes dotting the landscape would be far less.
        Last edited by slick_miester; 21 Nov 18, 08:55.
        I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
          Forest Thinning Can Prevent Fires, Save Water, Study Finds

          April 24, 2018


          (CN) – Better forest management would not only prevent wildfires but could serve as a valuable water-conservation tool, according to a study published Tuesday.

          California could save billions of gallons annually by undertaking significant forest-thinning operations, according to scientists affiliated with the National Science Foundation and the Sierra Critical Zone Observatory.

          “We’ve known for some time that managed forest fires are the only way to restore the majority of overstocked western forests and reduce the risk of catastrophic fires,” James Roche, a National Park Service hydrologist and lead author of the new study, said in a statement. “We can now add the potential benefit of increased water yield from these watersheds.”

          Indeed, a variety of scientific studies published in the last decade argue fire-suppression efforts in California have had a detrimental impact. The typical argument says that fire occurred naturally for centuries, allowing the forest to thin itself out and provide periods of regeneration. With fewer fires, tree density has grown. Now, when fires do occur, they burn with an unnatural intensity that creates ecological and economic disasters.

          Last year’s Thomas Fire was the largest by acreage in California’s history, while the spate of wildfires that ravaged Northern California last fall was the most economically disastrous.

          Tuesday’s study says thinning projects could also help conserve water, as trees require an enormous amount of water to carry out basic biological functions.

          “By reducing the water used by plants, more rainfall flows into rivers and accumulates in groundwater,” said Richard Yuretich of the National Science Foundation.
          ....
          According to the study, excessive evapotranspiration could interact with climate change to harm an already fragile California ecosystem reeling from years of prolonged drought with the prospect of more bouts of extreme weather.

          The study, published in the scientific journal Ecohydrology, looked at observation towers in the Sierra Nevada Mountains and United States Geological Survey databases and found more water conserved in areas where forests had been thinned for fire management.

          For example, Kings River Basin saved 3.7 billion gallons of water per year during an 18-year period beginning in 1990, the study said. Similarly, the American River Basin experienced a savings of 17 billion gallons per year over the same period due to similar thinning practices.

          But achieving this type of significant, widespread forest restoration throughout the entire Sierra would require enormous spending.

          The U.S. Forest Service says about 6 to 8 million of the 21 million acres of forest land it manages need immediate restoration, according to the study. Nationwide, 58 million acres are in need of immediate work.

          For California alone, that work carries a price tag that could rise as high as $10 billion.

          But the study authors hope the projects they espouse bring enough economic benefits to pay for themselves.
          ....
          https://www.courthousenews.com/fores...r-study-finds/
          ..................................................
          Obviously, other factors apply as well, and especially in California which is often drier than many other forested regions of this country, and has seen extensive development and building close into the wildland~forest areas. The consistent message has been that thinning the forest floor of "brush" build-up, clearing dead and fallen trees, and logging that helps produce barrier paths can reduce the fuel for forest/wild fires. Quick response when a fire starts can also reduce the growth and spread.

          FWIW, I live in one of the most forest intense states in the nation, and while some of these preventive methods are employed, they aren't in enough scale and area. A large part of the problem also is the "environmental" constrictions regarding "endangered species" that fail to appreciate the impact of not engaging preventive forest management and fire prevention, resulting in above natural accumulation of fuel on the forest beds/floors.

          Also, not the date of this article, nearly seven months ago.
          as a fyi you do not want to eliminate all the snag and logs as they do provide a some important wildlife functions.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

            If Minnesota is "the land of 10,000 lakes"



            then what does that make Finland?

            All kidding aside, and germane to this topic, I'd think that Finland and Minnesota share a common geology: earth scoured by retreating glaciers at the end of the last ice age 10,000 years ago engendered countless depressions in which water could pool and form lakes. I'm thinking here of formations similar to NYS' Finger Lakes.



            https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/im...e-finger-lakes

            I suspect that Finland has similar geology, formed by retreating glaciers ten millenia ago. California, lying at a more southern latitude, wasn't so scoured by ice age glaciers, so the likelihood of a multitude lakes dotting the landscape would be far less.
            Minnesota has a number of large wildfire every few years.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by craven View Post

              Minnesota has a number of large wildfire every few years.
              As does NYS -- but not nearly as big as California's, nor nearly as often.
              I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

              Comment


              • #37
                The next California wildlife may be the burning down of the tech giants who's inflated value is a tender box we all live in. California in particular has invested too heavily in what can only be described as asset poor industries and neglected the heart of any industrial nation, infrastructure. The insanity of the concept of "post industrial" is about to bear fruit.
                We hunt the hunters

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post

                  community organizer compared to a what?
                  As "community organizer" (etc.) BHO spent the bulk of his career and income earning (up to and through POTUS) living off of other people's money. Either via "non-profits" (donations and Grant funding) or as a guv'mint worker/employee. In generic economic terms he was a wealth taker, not a wealth maker (similar to some of the institutionalized mindset, career(life-time) former guv'mint employees persons posting here.

                  At this point someone will mention all the books he has "written". I read the first two, written before he became POTUS, and they were anti-West, anti-Capitalist, Neo-socialist screeds coming across as a Black-American version of "Mein Kampf". His first one focused on adulation of a father whom was a bigamist and dead-beat, providing an insight into BHO's shallow character and low integrity. If he hadn't been POTUS, one would have to pay me(well) to read them. Based on these two, he others lack any appeal to me, the publishers wasted their money on these(IMO).

                  Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                  ...A suckask Reality TV Show which had nothing to do with reality
                  That was a rather brief and recent aspect of a life spent in what could be considered the wealth-making or private sector of the economy. DJT had that show because of his wealth creation track record and his high-profile personality/lifestyle. Until that show he wasn't well known or on the radar of much of the nation, though he was a definite personage on the East Coast.

                  POTUS is not a popularity contest (shouldn't be anyway, though too many Americans vote as if it was.), rather it's equal to being CEO of a large corporation, which is an analogy for the economic wealth and strength the USA has (though an apt analogy for almost any nation). CEOs are valued more for their executive and administrative abilities, and for managing growth, productivity and profitability, personality is secondary for many aspects of the job. "suckask" or not, DJT has a much more significant record of accomplishment in the CEO sphere than does BHO.

                  Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                  GaC-GaG , translate, even Google is mystified.
                  Not surprised, I just made that up in post#27 which preceded the one you are quoting. Were you more thorough in reading skills and comprehension you might have noticed. Obviously you have been last choice for the G2/S2 slot on Staff.

                  Get a Clue - Get a Grip = GaC-GaG

                  Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                  Gag, A gag is designed to prevent speech or the subject making noise. Only if his foot counts as a gag.
                  GaC-GaG is directed towards some of our posters here. As usual, you have a challenge following the flow.
                  TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
                    You people have gone insane.
                    No...like many forum members they suffer from a form of attention deficit disorder characterized by the attention span of a gnat. By the time they read the OP they have completely forgotten what it was about, so their minds wander off in whatever direction they were pointing the last time they had a random thought.

                    However, they do become irritable if someone else does this on one of their threads.
                    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
                      The next California wildlife may be the burning down of the tech giants who's inflated value is a tender box we all live in. California in particular has invested too heavily in what can only be described as asset poor industries and neglected the heart of any industrial nation, infrastructure. The insanity of the concept of "post industrial" is about to bear fruit.
                      California essentially began as a boom-and-bust state, and that has been its official stance ever since., from the Gold Rush to the Hollywood Rush to the Tech Rush. That is what fuels the animosity between NorCal and SoCal - the huge difference in work ethic, culture, responsibility (none in SoCal) and just plain concept of how one makes a living.
                      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

                        As "community organizer" (etc.) BHO spent the bulk of his career and income earning (up to and through POTUS) living off of other people's money. Either via "non-profits" (donations and Grant funding) or as a guv'mint worker/employee. In generic economic terms he was a wealth taker, not a wealth maker (similar to some of the institutionalized mindset, career(life-time) former guv'mint employees persons posting here.

                        At this point someone will mention all the books he has "written". I read the first two, written before he became POTUS, and they were anti-West, anti-Capitalist, Neo-socialist screeds coming across as a Black-American version of "Mein Kampf". His first one focused on adulation of a father whom was a bigamist and dead-beat, providing an insight into BHO's shallow character and low integrity. If he hadn't been POTUS, one would have to pay me(well) to read them. Based on these two, he others lack any appeal to me, the publishers wasted their money on these(IMO).



                        That was a rather brief and recent aspect of a life spent in what could be considered the wealth-making or private sector of the economy. DJT had that show because of his wealth creation track record and his high-profile personality/lifestyle. Until that show he wasn't well known or on the radar of much of the nation, though he was a definite personage on the East Coast.

                        POTUS is not a popularity contest (shouldn't be anyway, though too many Americans vote as if it was.), rather it's equal to being CEO of a large corporation, which is an analogy for the economic wealth and strength the USA has (though an apt analogy for almost any nation). CEOs are valued more for their executive and administrative abilities, and for managing growth, productivity and profitability, personality is secondary for many aspects of the job. "suckask" or not, DJT has a much more significant record of accomplishment in the CEO sphere than does BHO.



                        Not surprised, I just made that up in post#27 which preceded the one you are quoting. Were you more thorough in reading skills and comprehension you might have noticed. Obviously you have been last choice for the G2/S2 slot on Staff.

                        Get a Clue - Get a Grip = GaC-GaG



                        GaC-GaG is directed towards some of our posters here. As usual, you have a challenge following the flow.
                        I prefer FIGJAM, and so should you.
                        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
                          The next California wildlife may be the burning down of the tech giants who's inflated value is a tender box we all live in. California in particular has invested too heavily in what can only be described as asset poor industries and neglected the heart of any industrial nation, infrastructure. The insanity of the concept of "post industrial" is about to bear fruit.
                          The huge recent stock drop are mostly tech shares. They no longer have Democrats in control to prop them up.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by craven View Post

                            as a fyi you do not want to eliminate all the snag and logs as they do provide a some important wildlife functions.
                            Yes I know. Like you I live in a very forested state and grew up in a logging community (Enumclaw).

                            Making a long story shorter, the Native-Americans would regularly set fire to the underbrush to both reduce the risk of larger fire potential, but also to encourage fresh, green grass and scrub growth to provide food/fodder for the wildlife they would hunt. This was a practice on the East Coast, until European colonization become heavy, as well as in California(SW). When Spanish colonization arrived in California their cattle grazing on these lands also kept the fuel load low and revitalized the soil for new plant growth.

                            "The Big Burn" of over a century ago, was the incentive to create the US Forestry Service and encourage more pro-active and quick response to forest/wild fires before they could grow. Once a fire reaches a certain size and energy load, the flame and heat becomes harder to contain or extinguish and the spread can start to become exponential. This where keeping the underbrush(fuel load) reduce, having firebreaks via selective clear cut bands, ample roads for access, and quick response can help to keep fire size and destruction at lower levels.

                            California also has a regular weather phenomena know as the Santa Ana winds which occur every Fall, especially in Southern CA. Forest/wild fires at this season become extra hazards as these annual winds can speed their spread.

                            The Big Burn;
                            ...
                            The Great Fire of 1910 (also commonly referred to as the Big Blowup, the Big Burn, or the Devil's Broom fire) was a wildfire in the western United States that burned three million acres (4,700 sq mi; 12,100 km2) in North Idaho and Western Montana, with extensions into Eastern Washington and Southeast British Columbia, in the summer of 1910.[1] The area burned included large parts of the Bitterroot, Cabinet, Clearwater, Coeur d'Alene, Flathead, Kaniksu, Kootenai, Lewis and Clark, Lolo, and St. Joe National Forests.

                            The fire burned over two days, August 20–21, after strong winds caused numerous smaller fires to combine into a firestorm of unprecedented size. It killed 87 people,[2] mostly firefighters,[3][4] and destroyed numerous manmade structures, including several entire towns. It is believed to be the largest, although not the deadliest, forest fire in U.S. history.[5] The extensive burned area was approximately the size of the state of Connecticut.

                            In the aftermath of the fire, the U.S. Forest Service received considerable recognition for its firefighting efforts. The outcome was to highlight firefighters as public heroes while raising public awareness of national nature conservation. The fire is often considered a significant impetus in the development of early wildfire prevention and suppression strategies.
                            ....
                            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Fire_of_1910

                            See also;
                            https://foresthistory.org/research-e...he-1910-fires/

                            https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE...rdb5444731.pdf

                            https://www.nationalforests.org/our-...and-its-legacy

                            Here's a book I'd recommend, which I read a few years ago;
                            The Big Burn: Teddy Roosevelt and the Fire that Saved America Paperback – September 7, 2010

                            by Timothy Egan

                            https://www.amazon.com/Big-Burn-Tedd.../dp/0547394608

                            The wife and I drive through this area every year about Easter time as we make a long weekend trip to see kids and grandkids as far as Kalispell, Montana.
                            TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                              I prefer FIGJAM, and so should you.
                              I'll pass ...
                              https://youtu.be/YyzrKPcLpBw?t=6
                              TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

                                As does NYS -- but not nearly as big as California's, nor nearly as often.
                                Well gee and golly Jethro. No -hit. What do they have in common other than being one of the 57 states?
                                "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                                Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                                you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                                Comment

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