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  • #31
    Checked around on government support for egg farmers. Nothing to take to the bank. One no to I don't know for sure but farmers get some support. Eggs come from all over the NW European EU country's so how and why the pricing goes I don't know but would not be surprised that there is some sort of price control to keep the playing field level
    "Ask not what your country can do for you"

    Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

    you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

    Comment


    • #32
      Want to bet more farmers move out of California...
      Sounds like a safe bet. Also a stupid idea. What do the farmers do? Pack up their tractor and a couple hundred acres and go where? I think they would find most farm able land already taken
      "Ask not what your country can do for you"

      Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

      you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
        Thing that drive property cost is of course population density. Germany has 82 million in the space of MT. 82 mil is more than NY, FL, TX and CA combined or close to it.
        Only to a degree. Additional things that drive it are location, zoning and building regulations and restrictions, and tax burdens.

        Take Portland for example. They put building boundaries on the city. If you have property outside the boundaries, it is cheap because you can't build almost anything on it. If you are inside the boundary, your land is very expensive and valuable because growth has caused a massive reduction in available land for new construction.
        Zoning is the same way. If you have land zoned for agriculture, it is far less valuable than commercially zoned land.

        So, the artificialities that government puts on land use often have direct and serious impacts on that land's value.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
          Thing that drive property cost is of course population density. Germany has 82 million in the space of MT. 82 mil is more than NY, FL, TX and CA combined or close to it.
          They do, but their planning is different, their culture and social rules are designed for i, and it works well for them. Unlike America, their cities are not centers of decay, drugs and mindless violence which is what often drives Americans into the suburbs and then further into the country.
          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

            They do, but their planning is different, their culture and social rules are designed for i, and it works well for them. Unlike America, their cities are not centers of decay, drugs and mindless violence which is what often drives Americans into the suburbs and then further into the country.
            Correct.

            What caused the decay in our Down Towns? My home town had a nice downtown with full fledged Market Halls, great stores and lousy parking. Sort of like Germany of today. Going from my home town it started with the first Mall, even though it was 13 miles outside of town. Then within the last twenty years they got the second Mall on the other side of town. You need a parking space...just go down town with all the vacant lots were prospering business use to be. It sucks
            "Ask not what your country can do for you"

            Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

            you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
              California has passed a law requiring all egg production be "cage free" by 2025. The law also requires specific larger cage sizes for calves and pigs.


              https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...gs-a-state-law

              Want to bet more farmers move out of California...
              California is the largest producer of produce in the nation. I doubt people are gonna go to middle America. Better weather in CA, more prosperity due to the progressive policies. There's a reason blue states and blue areas of states are always metropolitan and/or wealthy areas. Money is like a magnet to progressive policies. Same with presidencies.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by inevtiab1e View Post
                California is the largest producer of produce in the nation. I doubt people are gonna go to middle America. Better weather in CA, more prosperity due to the progressive policies. There's a reason blue states and blue areas of states are always metropolitan and/or wealthy areas. Money is like a magnet to progressive policies. Same with presidencies.
                If California keeps it up, they won't be for long. Given the ability to ship goods long distances today, agriculture will move elsewhere if it is unprofitable in California. Between silliness like this law, and things like cutting water to agriculture severely California is forcing farmers to move elsewhere.

                For example, in Arizona the wine industry is growing as fast as California's whine industry...



                Why suffer California's onerous laws and water shortages when you can grow equally good or better grapes in Arizona?

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

                  If California keeps it up, they won't be for long. Given the ability to ship goods long distances today, agriculture will move elsewhere if it is unprofitable in California. Between silliness like this law, and things like cutting water to agriculture severely California is forcing farmers to move elsewhere.

                  For example, in Arizona the wine industry is growing as fast as California's whine industry...



                  Why suffer California's onerous laws and water shortages when you can grow equally good or better grapes in Arizona?
                  Let them then. People are where they are for a reason. Why are you talking about grapes? The thread is about cages for chickens. That has zero effect on you.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by inevtiab1e View Post
                    Let them then. People are where they are for a reason. Why are you talking about grapes? The thread is about cages for chickens. That has zero effect on you.
                    It's not like Arizona doesn't have chicken / egg production too... They could move here and sell in California.

                    And, yes, chickens in cages that produce eggs and then become chicken meat don't bother me at all

                    FARM ANIMALS ARE FOOD, NOT FRIENDS.

                    Like Hickman egg production company:

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      For example, in Arizona the wine industry is growing as fast as California's whine industry...
                      CA wine has been establish for over a hundred years. I doubt it needs to grow. When I start seeing AZ wine over here then we can talk more about it. I really didn't know they could make wine from cactus juice.
                      "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                      Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                      you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post

                        Sounds like a safe bet. Also a stupid idea. What do the farmers do? Pack up their tractor and a couple hundred acres and go where? I think they would find most farm able land already taken
                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Trek

                        Precedence, John....
                        The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          How many acres did each take with them and was the land filled with other people?
                          Last edited by Half Pint John; 10 Nov 18, 15:33.
                          "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                          Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                          you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                            Yes, California is #1 in population and GDP (39,776,830-- $2,746,873 millions) versus Arizona being #14 in pop and #21 in GDP (7,530,552 -- $319,850 millions)

                            But, when you divide population by GDP to get the GDP per person in the state.... Arizona gets $23.54 versus California's $14.48. That is, Arizona is nearly TWICE as productive as California. No wonder... Between massive regulations, high taxes, and a large population on welfare, California isn't very productive for its massive size.
                            Your math is wrong. GDP/person is $/population. You did the inverse.
                            California works out to approximately 69K$ per person and Arizona 42K$/per person.
                            Californians are 64% more productive than Arizonans.

                            Your analysis is wrong and your conclusions are wrong as they are based on erroneous analysis.
                            I have to wonder how many of your other deeply held beliefs are equally based on bad data or incorrect analysis.


                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by AdrianE View Post

                              Your math is wrong. GDP/person is $/population. You did the inverse.
                              California works out to approximately 69K$ per person and Arizona 42K$/per person.
                              Californians are 64% more productive than Arizonans.

                              Your analysis is wrong and your conclusions are wrong as they are based on erroneous analysis.
                              I have to wonder how many of your other deeply held beliefs are equally based on bad data or incorrect analysis.

                              Most of them imo. Usually long winds but just a breeze with little in them.
                              "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                              Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                              you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                The difference between tangible wealth and money is important when discussing economics. Money lubricates the machinery that generates wealth but the two should not be confused. The meaning of money changes dependent on where it is located but wealth much less so.

                                Money is an abstraction much as the arbitrary line that separates Southern California from Mexico. Taking money across that arbitrary line changes it's meaning. On one side of the border it generates wealth on the other it generates cartels and social chaos. What turned similar patches of desert into different worlds is infrastructure in the form of transportation systems, water projects, educational systems, cheap energy and free markets.

                                California now ranks 42d in highways, has severe water shortages, ranks 37th in primary and secondary schools, has the 44th highest electricity costs, and highly regulated markets. All things that California once lead the nation in.

                                What California has is the best higher education system in the world. Unfortunately for California the meaning of education is likely to radically change over the next few decades as progressive policies degrade the value of a University Education while at the same time the internet erodes the meaning of physical location. Many of the things that made California wealthy are increasingly portable not just education but industries such as Silicon Valley and entertainment. Silicon valley and the entertainment industry could just as easily be in India today.

                                What California had and no longer has is a vision of the future. Previous generations defied the environmental movement to build a water system for the future, a highway system that had room to grow, an educational system focused on excellence not diversity, an electrical grid that allowed for growth, a population eager to build new industries and a vision of what was wrong with it's neighbor to the south.

                                ​​​​​​
                                We hunt the hunters

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