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It's Time to End Affirmative Action

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  • #76
    Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
    I never cared for Bush or Obama, I actually liked Carter until he proved incompetent, what any of these comparisons has to do with affirmative action, especially many years later is, is at best trivial.
    Jimmy Carter: proof positive that academic achievement, technical wherewithal, and good character do not translate into political competence. And in a strange way, this tidbit will be pertinent to the discussion.

    Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
    Slick wants to talk about the disconnect between elite status and merit. The first question is how to measure merit, I think we can agree that it isn't a birthright but it surely must have a genetic component?
    Measuring merit isn't easy. There's no perfect test for it. Various tests, however, can be combined with astute observation, as described by the late Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart: "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it."

    Is merit an inheritable trait? I say no. Talent may be inherited, but the ability to develop that talent, and then to put it to good use, is decidedly not an inherited ability. That's what merit is: having raw talent, developing it, cultivating it, then applying it to worthy enterprises. The development, cultivation, and application of talent require not raw talent, but industry, determination, and also judgement and even wisdom. Those last four traits are functions of a good character. Character is decidedly not an inherited trait, certainly not genetic.

    Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
    Talent as a basis for entrance into a university was traditionally measure alongside character. How do you measure character? Isn't it reasonable to expect that the elites more vigorously prepare their children making it harder to focus on raw talent when assessing merit? Is slicks point overreach towards an equality of opportunity that can never be realized? So on and so forth.
    Would you apply that yardstick to the Kennedy's? The Cuomo's? The D'Alesandro's? To any political dynasty? Strikes me that the bulk of politicians' scions are raging a$$holes. They're too insecure, too emotionally needy, they have way too much to prove.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.62160185510f

    There's a lot of basket cases in that list.

    It varies so much from family to family that I wouldn't dare to hazard a guess. If I had to guess, however, I'd say that the field of endeavor that the family made their reputation in may go a long way in determining what kind of character the heirs will develop. If the field in question rewards mendacity, then you'll have your answer about character and how it's transmitted from parent to child.

    Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
    The founding fathers were mostly men with advantages they inherited from their parents and family ties. Does that invalidate in anyway the foundation they prepared?
    Before the founding of our republic, there wasn't much in the way of public education, so it only stands to reason that the republic's first generations of leaders came from privileged backgrounds.

    Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
    Isn't a republic almost guaranteed to be ran by privileged individuals to a degree?
    Perhaps, but that condition need not be set in stone. Great dynasties have been known to implode throughout history. Combine that with the fact that a society prospers when it receives injections of new blood on occasion, and clearly it's actually desirable to turn over the leadership from time to time. It's why we so strongly favor term limits.

    https://www.google.com/search?biw=14...13.5rRoaKHP3Sc

    It's why genetic diversity generally ensures offspring's survivability.

    https://www.ohio.edu/ethics/2003-con...n-populations/

    We don't NEED dynasts. Sometimes a dynast may be preferable, if he possesses superior knowledge and technique, learned from his forebears -- but in this era of universal education, and the ubiquity of the internet, wherein nearly the whole of human knowledge is accessible with little more than a few keystrokes or swipes, dynasts' advantages are no longer so obvious as to justify their monopolies. They're just not necessary. Frankly, they're expendable.
    I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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    • #77
      Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
      So you have to lie to feel as though you got your point across. Since you have never applied for or have been excepted at any higher education institution, it will be difficult for you to understand the selection process. I could explain it to you, but your lack of understanding simple concepts would do you in.

      I did not have to lie about anything since I was not the one who tried to use his personal experience to get the point across. That was YOU who tried to do it! And even though I do not have personal experience with the US higher education, I have gained knowledge about it in my personal life through my wife and my children. So, if I wanted I could use their examples! But I preferred to bring facts fro sources that other people can verify here, something that you were incapable to do so despite your three degrees...
      My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

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      • #78
        Originally posted by pamak View Post
        Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
        So you have to lie to feel as though you got your point across. Since you have never applied for or have been excepted at any higher education institution, it will be difficult for you to understand the selection process. I could explain it to you, but your lack of understanding simple concepts would do you in.

        I did not have to lie about anything since I was not the one who tried to use his personal experience to get the point across. That was YOU who tried to do it! And even though I do not have personal experience with the US higher education, I have gained knowledge about it in my personal life through my wife and my children. So, if I wanted I could use their examples! But I preferred to bring facts fro sources that other people can verify here, something that you were incapable to do so despite your three degrees...
        Again you have ZERO clues, it gets old and people here are tired of your ignorance.
        My worst jump story:
        My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
        As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
        No lie.

        ~
        "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
        -2 Commando Jumpmaster

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post

          Again you have ZERO clues, it gets old and people here are tired of your ignorance.
          You're the last person who should accuse anyone here of being ignorant.
          We are not now that strength which in old days
          Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
          Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
          To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

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          • #80
            Time to close this thread. We can revisit it when the courts make a decision.
            We hunt the hunters

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Massena View Post

              You're the last person who should accuse anyone here of being ignorant.
              This coming from Joe Ignoramus!
              My worst jump story:
              My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
              As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
              No lie.

              ~
              "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
              -2 Commando Jumpmaster

              Comment

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