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  • #61
    I never cared for Bush or Obama, I actually liked Carter until he proved incompetent, what any of these comparisons has to do with affirmative action, especially many years later is, is at best trivial.

    Slick wants to talk about the disconnect between elite status and merit. The first question is how to measure merit, I think we can agree that it isn't a birthright but it surely must have a genetic component? Talent as a basis for entrance into a university was traditionally measure alongside character. How do you measure character? Isn't it reasonable to expect that the elites more vigorously prepare their children making it harder to focus on raw talent when assessing merit? Is slicks point overreach towards an equality of opportunity that can never be realized? So on and so forth.

    The founding fathers were mostly men with advantages they inherited from their parents and family ties. Does that invalidate in anyway the foundation they prepared? Isn't a republic almost guaranteed to be ran by privileged individuals to a degree?
    We hunt the hunters

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
      I never cared for Bush or Obama, I actually liked Carter until he proved incompetent, what any of these comparisons has to do with affirmative action, especially many years later is, is at best trivial.

      Slick wants to talk about the disconnect between elite status and merit. The first question is how to measure merit, I think we can agree that it isn't a birthright but it surely must have a genetic component? Talent as a basis for entrance into a university was traditionally measure alongside character. How do you measure character? Isn't it reasonable to expect that the elites more vigorously prepare their children making it harder to focus on raw talent when assessing merit? Is slicks point overreach towards an equality of opportunity that can never be realized? So on and so forth.

      The founding fathers were mostly men with advantages they inherited from their parents and family ties. Does that invalidate in anyway the foundation they prepared? Isn't a republic almost guaranteed to be ran by privileged individuals to a degree?


      Traditionally, the university admissions were reflecting arbitrary social norms which excluded or limited at different times women, Jews and minorities. Alo, Bush and people like him SHOULD be part of your concern. By all accounts including his personal admissions, we can easily conclude that his parents did not prepare him successfully for Harvard. His intellectual performance and his character at the time cannot explain how he was chosen over other candidates to attend an MBA program at Harvard.
      My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by pamak View Post
        Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
        Nice edit troll.

        Here is the unedited version, troll


        You are not really that dumb.
        My worst jump story:
        My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
        As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
        No lie.

        ~
        "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
        -2 Commando Jumpmaster

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by pamak View Post
          Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
          I never cared for Bush or Obama, I actually liked Carter until he proved incompetent, what any of these comparisons has to do with affirmative action, especially many years later is, is at best trivial.

          Slick wants to talk about the disconnect between elite status and merit. The first question is how to measure merit, I think we can agree that it isn't a birthright but it surely must have a genetic component? Talent as a basis for entrance into a university was traditionally measure alongside character. How do you measure character? Isn't it reasonable to expect that the elites more vigorously prepare their children making it harder to focus on raw talent when assessing merit? Is slicks point overreach towards an equality of opportunity that can never be realized? So on and so forth.

          The founding fathers were mostly men with advantages they inherited from their parents and family ties. Does that invalidate in anyway the foundation they prepared? Isn't a republic almost guaranteed to be ran by privileged individuals to a degree?


          Traditionally, the university admissions were reflecting arbitrary social norms which excluded or limited at different times women, Jews and minorities. Alo, Bush and people like him SHOULD be part of your concern. By all accounts including his personal admissions, we can easily conclude that his parents did not prepare him successfully for Harvard. His intellectual performance and his character at the time cannot explain how he was chosen over other candidates to attend an MBA program at Harvard.
          My guess is they were preparing him to be president, you really didn't fall for the good old boy act did you?
          We hunt the hunters

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
            My guess is they were preparing him to be president, you really didn't fall for the good old boy act did you?

            I thought that the issue was meritocracy. So, it is irrelevant what his parents wanted for their kid.
            My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

            Comment


            • #66

              Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
              You are not really that dumb.

              I do not talk about myself, and if I am smart or dumb or not. Notice the topic of the other thread which mentions the observable fact in psychology that most people overestimate their intellectual capabilities.

              https://forums.armchairgeneral.com/f...ngful-dialogue
              .


              Feel free to have your own opinion about my intellect,, but notice that, incidentally, in the same thread I posted previously, even one of my political opponents here called me "smart"

              https://forums.armchairgeneral.com/f...14#post4617514

              Originally posted by Salinator View Post
              I think you are really smart and must be a really nice guy in person. But sometimes you do come across in a way that it may be wise for me let it be known I am not taking a position, and therefor no need for you to rescue me from that supposed position.


              Personally, I do not care what you or anybody else here thinks about me. I only care about people's claims. You claimed that the video I posted with Bush's speech was edited, and I gave you the full speech from the university's youtube channel to shut your mouth or at least to make sure that if you continue your talk, you will sound as somebody who does not know how to respond back. Your last respond fulfilled my expectations.

              Last edited by pamak; 23 Oct 18, 20:10.
              My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by pamak View Post
                Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
                You are not really that dumb.

                I do not talk about myself, and if I am smart or dumb or not. Notice the topic of the other thread which mentions the observable fact in psychology that most people overestimate their intellectual capabilities.

                https://forums.armchairgeneral.com/f...ngful-dialogue
                .


                Feel free to have your own opinion about my intellect,, but notice that, incidentally, in the same thread I posted previously, even one of my political opponents here called me "smart"

                https://forums.armchairgeneral.com/f...14#post4617514

                Originally posted by Salinator View Post
                I think you are really smart and must be a really nice guy in person. But sometimes you do come across in a way that it may be wise for me let it be known I am not taking a position, and therefor no need for you to rescue me from that supposed position.


                Personally, I do not care what you or anybody else here thinks about me. I only care about people's claims. You claimed that the video I posted with Bush's speech was edited, and I gave you the full speech from the university's youtube channel to shut your mouth or at least to make sure that if you continue your talk, you will sound as somebody who does not know how to respond back. Your last respond fulfilled my expectations.
                Dumb
                My worst jump story:
                My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                No lie.

                ~
                "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                -2 Commando Jumpmaster

                Comment


                • #68
                  Now, after dealing with the nuances of this thread, back to the subject...

                  Since I do not want to turn the conversation regarding legacies to a partisan issue, here is another example from the "left" (supposedly the mainstream Democrats are the "left")

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kerry


                  220px-John_Kerry_official_Secretary_of_State_portrait.jpg
                  Education Now, a JD degree (law) is a postgraduate degree. There is a lot of competition among applicants for Law schools.

                  Now, can anybody explain how a "C" student at Yale was accepted to Boston's JD program?

                  By the way, we also have the transcripts for Kerry

                  http://www.nbcnews.com/id/8127403/ns...nscript-shows/

                  BOSTON — Sen. John F. Kerry's grade average at Yale University was virtually identical to President Bush's record there, despite repeated portrayals of Kerry as the more intellectual candidate during the 2004 presidential campaign.

                  Kerry had a cumulative average of 76 and got four Ds his freshman year — in geology, two history courses and political science, The Boston Globe reported Tuesday.

                  His grades improved with time, and he averaged an 81 his senior year and earned an 89 -- his highest grade -- in political science as a senior


                  And we also know that his father was a Yale alumnus, and that letters of recommendation from professors are part of the evaluation of the candidate when he applies for a postgraduate program

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Kerry
                  Last edited by pamak; 23 Oct 18, 20:59.
                  My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    pamak you are making a trivial point, some people are more privileged than others. I think everyone knows that. The question is if the solution is unearned privilege.
                    We hunt the hunters

                    Comment


                    • #70

                      Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
                      pamak you are making a trivial point, some people are more privileged than others. I think everyone knows that. The question is if the solution is unearned privilege.

                      My point was not that some people are more privileged than others. My point (which ironically 101combatvet proved) was that the issue of "unearned privilege" is used selectively by hypocrites who are only concerned about "meritocracy" when they talk about minorities but remain blissfully ignorant when undeserved rich white kids are benefited by the current system of admissions.
                      My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by pamak View Post
                        Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
                        pamak you are making a trivial point, some people are more privileged than others. I think everyone knows that. The question is if the solution is unearned privilege.

                        My point was not that some people are more privileged than others. My point (which ironically 101combatvet proved) was that the issue of "unearned privilege" is used selectively by hypocrites who are only concerned about "meritocracy" when they talk about minorities but remain blissfully ignorant when undeserved rich white kids are benefited by the current system of admissions.
                        Yes we got it the first time and the argument doesn't improve with repetition.

                        ​​​​​The argument against what you are suggesting is taught to second graders as two wrongs do not make a right.

                        We hunt the hunters

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
                          Yes we got it the first time and the argument doesn't improve with repetition.

                          ​​​​​The argument against what you are suggesting is taught to second graders as two wrongs do not make a right.


                          You got it, but some of the right-wing posters here who challenged the claim did not get it. This was what led me to defend my claim. As to those who "got it" and accept my initial claim, I am not saying that affirmative action based on race should exist because rich kids are getting unfair advantages based on their family's background. What I am saying is that ALL types of advantages should be on the table when we discuss how to change the admission process of universities. We should not restrict the discussion only within those existed advantages that fit best to our political agenda.
                          My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Hida Akechi View Post

                            Massena is an idiot, of course--attacking me because I dared to give an example that clashed with his fanaticism. The job I had I was there for nearly 10 years. The person they put in the position was a black female. A friend of mine, I really liked her, but even she herself admitted that she didn't know why I wasn't given the promotion, since I had the experience and work record. I ended up having to do a lot of her work anyway until the company collapsed in on itself a couple of years later.
                            Here you go-perhaps this will help you instead of merely crying in your beer:

                            https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/...cid=spartandhp
                            We are not now that strength which in old days
                            Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                            Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                            To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by pamak View Post
                              Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
                              pamak you are making a trivial point, some people are more privileged than others. I think everyone knows that. The question is if the solution is unearned privilege.

                              My point was not that some people are more privileged than others. My point (which ironically 101combatvet proved) was that the issue of "unearned privilege" is used selectively by hypocrites who are only concerned about "meritocracy" when they talk about minorities but remain blissfully ignorant when undeserved rich white kids are benefited by the current system of admissions.
                              So you have to lie to feel as though you got your point across. Since you have never applied for or have been excepted at any higher education institution, it will be difficult for you to understand the selection process. I could explain it to you, but your lack of understanding simple concepts would do you in.
                              My worst jump story:
                              My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                              As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                              No lie.

                              ~
                              "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                              -2 Commando Jumpmaster

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by pamak View Post
                                Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
                                Yes we got it the first time and the argument doesn't improve with repetition.

                                ​​​​​The argument against what you are suggesting is taught to second graders as two wrongs do not make a right.


                                You got it, but some of the right-wing posters here who challenged the claim did not get it. This was what led me to defend my claim. As to those who "got it" and accept my initial claim, I am not saying that affirmative action based on race should exist because rich kids are getting unfair advantages based on their family's background. What I am saying is that ALL types of advantages should be on the table when we discuss how to change the admission process of universities. We should not restrict the discussion only within those existed advantages that fit best to our political agenda.


                                Actually, with affirmative action it is the other way around, the selection is based on race not intelligence which is unfair.

                                My worst jump story:
                                My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                                As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                                No lie.

                                ~
                                "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                                -2 Commando Jumpmaster

                                Comment

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