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  • The USA Middle Class

    Nearly 70 percent of Americans consider themselves middle class: Here's how many actually are
    ....

    The definition of "middle class" can vary wildly depending on who you ask. For some, it's defined by certain attributes: If you're hardworking, thrifty and humble, for example, you're middle-class.For others, it means earning a substantial salary but not so much that you'd be considered rich.

    That's according to new data from Northwestern Mutual's 2018 Planning & Progress Study, which found that 68 percent of Americans consider themselves middle-class, down 2 percent from last year. However, because of the fuzziness of the definition, far more Americans consider themselves middle-class than technically qualify based on income.

    In reality, the middle class now makes up just over 50 percent of the total U.S. population, according to a recent report from Pew Research Center, which used 2016 data. That's compared to 61 percent in 1971.
    ....
    Pew defines the middle class as those whose annual household income is two-thirds to double the national median, which was $57,617 as of 2016. By that definition, a middle-income three-person household earns about $45,000 to $135,000. If you're single, a salary of around $26,000 to $78,000 qualifies you as middle-income.
    ....

    Northwestern Mutual's survey participants were nearly unanimous in saying that "middle-class" means you must make a certain amount of money, but the amount they said you need to qualify is slightly off from the official numbers. Just over 50 percent said that earning an annual salary of between $50,000 and $99,999 qualifies a household as middle-class.

    Another 20 percent say the middle class is composed of those earning between $100,000 and $499,999. As seen in the chart above, though, earning an annual income above $135,000 puts a three-person family among the 19 percent of American households that are upper-class. (The remaining 29 percent of American adults are part of the lower class.)
    ....
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/pers...z77?li=BBnb7Kz

  • #2
    Wouldn't 'blue collar' vs 'white collar' have an input as well rather than class being entirely on money?

    "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Surrey View Post
      Wouldn't 'blue collar' vs 'white collar' have an input as well rather than class being entirely on money?
      Not really. The lines between the two are rather blurred these days. A truck driver who earns $80k a year may not see himself as blue collar, and a officer worker makes two bucks over minimum is hardly white collar.
      Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Surrey View Post
        Wouldn't 'blue collar' vs 'white collar' have an input as well rather than class being entirely on money?
        The traditional "blue collar" doesn't exist any more: armies of factory workers reporting at the whistle, punching in, and turning wrenches on assembly lines for eight hours a day. That's gone, So too are the securities once assumed for middle management. They're now as replaceable as spokes in a wheel. Early 20th century paradigms for defining labor and political economy are obsolete. We need something new, to reflect the reality that we're all living in now.

        As for myself, while my income puts me in the "upper crust," my tastes and my patterns of thought are those learned on the street. Mrs Slick accuses me of dressing like a crack addict, and acting like a hoodlum. I can't help it. That's the lens through which I judge the world to this day. During his Apprentice show, Trump pontificated about the joys of talking business while playing a round of golf. Golf lost my interest the first time I played on a private course: some lackey shadowed me for 17 holes only to tell me on the 18th that my tee-shirt violated the club's dress code -- and mixing business and pleasure always struck me as a losing proposition. So what am I: upper class, or lower?
        I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Surrey View Post
          Wouldn't 'blue collar' vs 'white collar' have an input as well rather than class being entirely on money?
          Another complication is that welfare recipients are in some ways better off than the middle class a century ago. Perhaps we need to make it relative as we have with poverty.

          As AI replaces lawyers, accountants and engineers what has happened to blue collar workers will happen to white collar workers. As culture changes the meaning of fundamental categories change.
          We hunt the hunters

          Comment


          • #6
            The fact is you can live a pretty good life on not much money. We Milennials have what's called "$30k Millionaires." It's when someone graduates college, gets a starting salary of $30k, and spends his money on champagne bottles, traveling, and everything else a "millionaire" does. It's not the most promising mindset, but it shows how far a buck can go in today's economy.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post

              Another complication is that welfare recipients are in some ways better off than the middle class a century ago. Perhaps we need to make it relative as we have with poverty.

              As AI replaces lawyers, accountants and engineers what has happened to blue collar workers will happen to white collar workers. As culture changes the meaning of fundamental categories change.
              In the U.K. some on benefits can earn c100k per year. Would definitely not call them middle class though.
              Being middle class is about being responsible for ones actions. It is being willing to invest time and effort in training and education in order to probably, but not certainly, have a higher income in the future. It is about doing the right thing and living within the law. It is about providing for ones family until they are able to provide for themselves. It is about saving for ones retirement.

              Essentially all the stuff the left hates.
              "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

                The traditional "blue collar" doesn't exist any more: armies of factory workers reporting at the whistle, punching in, and turning wrenches on assembly lines for eight hours a day. That's gone, So too are the securities once assumed for middle management. They're now as replaceable as spokes in a wheel. Early 20th century paradigms for defining labor and political economy are obsolete. We need something new, to reflect the reality that we're all living in now.

                As for myself, while my income puts me in the "upper crust," my tastes and my patterns of thought are those learned on the street. Mrs Slick accuses me of dressing like a crack addict, and acting like a hoodlum. I can't help it. That's the lens through which I judge the world to this day. During his Apprentice show, Trump pontificated about the joys of talking business while playing a round of golf. Golf lost my interest the first time I played on a private course: some lackey shadowed me for 17 holes only to tell me on the 18th that my tee-shirt violated the club's dress code -- and mixing business and pleasure always struck me as a losing proposition. So what am I: upper class, or lower?
                Upper middle rather than upper crust. Even my cousin who headed up the derivatives team at a large international bank and retired at 45 is not upper crust.



                "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'm definitely lower middle-class. That means I have all the worries of being a responsible adult with none of the benefits.

                  Living in the ghetto has convinced me that the guys that sit on their porches and drink beer all day have it better than me.
                  We hunt the hunters

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
                    Nearly 70 percent of Americans consider themselves middle class: Here's how many actually are
                    ....

                    The definition of "middle class" can vary wildly depending on who you ask. For some, it's defined by certain attributes: If you're hardworking, thrifty and humble, for example, you're middle-class.For others, it means earning a substantial salary but not so much that you'd be considered rich.

                    That's according to new data from Northwestern Mutual's 2018 Planning & Progress Study, which found that 68 percent of Americans consider themselves middle-class, down 2 percent from last year. However, because of the fuzziness of the definition, far more Americans consider themselves middle-class than technically qualify based on income.

                    In reality, the middle class now makes up just over 50 percent of the total U.S. population, according to a recent report from Pew Research Center, which used 2016 data. That's compared to 61 percent in 1971.
                    ....
                    Pew defines the middle class as those whose annual household income is two-thirds to double the national median, which was $57,617 as of 2016. By that definition, a middle-income three-person household earns about $45,000 to $135,000. If you're single, a salary of around $26,000 to $78,000 qualifies you as middle-income.
                    ....

                    Northwestern Mutual's survey participants were nearly unanimous in saying that "middle-class" means you must make a certain amount of money, but the amount they said you need to qualify is slightly off from the official numbers. Just over 50 percent said that earning an annual salary of between $50,000 and $99,999 qualifies a household as middle-class.

                    Another 20 percent say the middle class is composed of those earning between $100,000 and $499,999. As seen in the chart above, though, earning an annual income above $135,000 puts a three-person family among the 19 percent of American households that are upper-class. (The remaining 29 percent of American adults are part of the lower class.)
                    ....
                    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/pers...z77?li=BBnb7Kz
                    My military retired pay puts me squarely in the Poverty Class, at less that $11,000 per year.
                    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

                      The traditional "blue collar" doesn't exist any more: armies of factory workers reporting at the whistle, punching in, and turning wrenches on assembly lines for eight hours a day. That's gone, So too are the securities once assumed for middle management. They're now as replaceable as spokes in a wheel. Early 20th century paradigms for defining labor and political economy are obsolete. We need something new, to reflect the reality that we're all living in now.

                      As for myself, while my income puts me in the "upper crust," my tastes and my patterns of thought are those learned on the street. Mrs Slick accuses me of dressing like a crack addict, and acting like a hoodlum. I can't help it. That's the lens through which I judge the world to this day. During his Apprentice show, Trump pontificated about the joys of talking business while playing a round of golf. Golf lost my interest the first time I played on a private course: some lackey shadowed me for 17 holes only to tell me on the 18th that my tee-shirt violated the club's dress code -- and mixing business and pleasure always struck me as a losing proposition. So what am I: upper class, or lower?
                      A diamond in the rough
                      "I am Groot"
                      - Groot

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Charles Murray's book, "Coming Apart," and the associated quizzes that will be found by searching "how thick is your bubble" or "do you live in a bubble" has some relevant thoughts.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Isn't class also to do with culture? If you read books, appreciate art, theatre, classical music, the opera and the finer things in life I'd say that made you middle class regardless of your income

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                            Isn't class also to do with culture? If you read books, appreciate art, theatre, classical music, the opera and the finer things in life I'd say that made you middle class regardless of your income
                            Depends on which side of the tracks you're from. To the upper class, breeding is everything. They even differentiate between "new money" and "old money." So just because you might know more about things than they do does not make you a member. Part of being of a higher class is the duty to maintain exclusivity. You can't just admit anyone who passes the knowledge test.
                            Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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