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  • #31
    Originally posted by Surrey View Post
    https://www.federalpay.org/military/army/ranks

    http://www.armedforces.co.uk/armypay...p#.W65DdH-Wzwo

    It seems that the US army pays the lower ranks less than the British army does. But then there is more scope for advancement for NCOs and WOs in the US. Swings and roundabouts.
    Doesn't your army have a higher retention, in that more of your soldiers are long-serving? In the US Army, only about 15% are career.
    Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

      I was in the Navy Reserve through 2006.

      When I first joined (1985) there were lots of really well qualified people, both officer and enlisted serving. I can remember a number of professional engineers who were Petty Officers, (one First Class / E-6 was the project manager for Tomahawk at Raytheon), and professional tradesmen like welders, electricians, mechanics, instrument makers, etc. There were a number of doctors and nurses in the medical units.

      About 2000 or so that started to change radically. The call ups started and most of those people started to quit. They found their professional civilian lives were being ruined and didn't want that. That's when they started taking people that had no active duty service too. The welfare moms, minimum wage workers, and such started to fill up units. The medical units were getting short on qualified people because of retirements and people quitting.

      The unit mix went from ship repair and supporting reserve ships to units that were basically there to rotate security guards through a base, or supply and support units that didn't require a lot of training.

      Arizona's National Guard got rid of their combat units. They disbanded the Apache helicopter unit at Marana even though that one had plenty of pilots. They did away with most of the combat units and instead got things like quartermaster truck companies and other support units that don't require skilled personnel.

      The Army Reserve downsized and did the same thing.
      I can't comment about the Navy, although the lack of technical skills would have a big impact.

      The Guard and Reserve (Army) are intended as 'round-out' forces intended to bring the Regulars up to full capability; at one time all water purification, long-distance POL and power supply, and other specialized units were in the Guard or Reserve.

      That's what hurt so bad during Vietnam: the Army was designed to call up a plethora of specialized units from the weekend warriors, as well as handing over training and garrison duties. Instead, they had to take over those jobs because LBJ wouldn't call up the reserves.

      Two motivations for the withdrawal of combat units in favor of low-skill units is that #1: that exposes Reserves to less combat; Guard or Reserve casualties create a greater impact than Regulars.

      #2 it is far faster to bring a transport battalion up to speed upon activation than a more complex unit, which shortens the activation cycle, which means the weekend warriors complain less.

      While your attack helicopter units had plenty of experienced pilots, it is maintenance personnel the Army is concerned about.
      Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post

        Doesn't your army have a higher retention, in that more of your soldiers are long-serving? In the US Army, only about 15% are career.
        Anecdotally yes. Those I know who have been in the army have mostly been in for longer than ten years. Most of them were officers though.
        "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Surrey View Post

          Anecdotally yes. Those I know who have been in the army have mostly been in for longer than ten years. Most of them were officers though.
          Around 85% of US enlisted are in for one enlistment (3-4 years) and out. Most officers leave after six years. That's why you see the better pay higher up the rank scale.
          Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post

            Around 85% of US enlisted are in for one enlistment (3-4 years) and out. Most officers leave after six years. That's why you see the better pay higher up the rank scale.
            Stands to reason. While your senior wo salaries look high there aren't many of them.
            A lot in the Uk leave after getting to Colonel. One consultancy firm I worked for had so many colonels in it was like a third world dictatorship.
            The US do get good accommodation though, I remember doing some coaching at Edzell and the family quarters seemed fine.
            Last edited by Surrey; 29 Sep 18, 03:05.
            "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Surrey View Post

              Stands to reason. While your senior wo salaries look high there aren't many of them.
              A lot in the Uk leave after getting to Colonel. One consultancy firm I worked for had so many colonels in it was like a third world dictatorship.
              .
              The Brtitish army automatically retires officers who have failed to reach certain ranks by a specific age. Colonel is one of the break points. if the officer has not been to staff college it is clear that he/she is not going any further. The age chop is relaxed for some who have reached full colonel and have a technical expertise and command things like research or training establishments but for most career officers Lt Col is as far as they go.
              Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
              Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post

                Around 85% of US enlisted are in for one enlistment (3-4 years) and out. Most officers leave after six years. That's why you see the better pay higher up the rank scale.
                Reference!
                "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Surrey View Post

                  Stands to reason. While your senior wo salaries look high there aren't many of them.
                  A lot in the Uk leave after getting to Colonel. One consultancy firm I worked for had so many colonels in it was like a third world dictatorship.
                  The US do get good accommodation though, I remember doing some coaching at Edzell and the family quarters seemed fine.
                  The barracks tend to be nice, too. The majority of officers leave after their six-year commitment is served, usually as Captains. Career officers tend to go out as full Colonels.

                  Warrant officers are either highly trained specialists, or helicopter pilots; in either case they Army wants to keep them. Outside of aviation they are rare. They are neither fish nor fowl, neither enlisted men nor officers, but a separate class all of their own.
                  Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post

                    The barracks tend to be nice, too. The majority of officers leave after their six-year commitment is served, usually as Captains. Career officers tend to go out as full Colonels.

                    Warrant officers are either highly trained specialists, or helicopter pilots; in either case they Army wants to keep them. Outside of aviation they are rare. They are neither fish nor fowl, neither enlisted men nor officers, but a separate class all of their own.
                    I would say that most officers retire as an LTC unless they have punched a very good ticket. West Point and other needed skills in higher education will give those the edge to get COL and above, unless they are a soup sandwich. I've seen a few clowns achive LTC rank and it was shocking.
                    My worst jump story:
                    My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                    As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                    No lie.

                    ~
                    "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                    -2 Commando Jumpmaster

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                      ....Career officers tend to go out as full Colonels.

                      Only 30-40% of Lieutenant Colonels considered for promotion are selected, so the majority actually retire as Lieutenant Colonels, because all of the General officers come out of those selected for Colonel.

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