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  • #16
    Originally posted by Salinator View Post

    What a wonderful recruitment slogan.
    It's reality, and anyone who thinks otherwise is deceiving themselves. The military exists to accomplish by force what diplomats fail to accomplish with lies and deceptions. Warfare is about dying, and the army needs infantry far more than all of the exotic specialties that they try to convince the average civilian will be their reward for enlisting. Being a soldier is about being expendable, and being fully prepared to meet that obligation when the moment comes. The ultimate MOS of every soldier is Rifleman, period.

    I spent eight long years of my life during the Cold War prepared to die the moment the Russians attacked, or at best end up a POW in order to care for my wounded. Our defense strategy allowed ZERO chance for us to survive - 25% casualties the first 24 hours and pull back, 25% the second 24 hours and try to fall back again - the most difficult maneuver in the military - and then hold until overrun. We were outnumbered by 15:1. That was our grand Cold War strategy.

    One of the biggest burdens at that time was my concern for the safety of my wife and children, whom I would have preferred not to be in Europe with me. As it is, I spent 50% of my time in the field every year and rarely saw much of them anyway. The junior enlisted would outright lie and fake illness and injury to avoid going to the field. Even the junior NCO's tried every trick in the book to be left behind, and the majority of the chopper pilots that I knew told me flat out they would fly their bird to the quarters, pick up families and head for a country like Switzerland where they could be interned.

    If anyone ever tries to tell you how gung-ho the military in Europe was during the Cold War, they're completely full of crap. The Cold War European military was fresh from the toilet bowl of the useless Viet Nam war, and they had no intention of dying for Germany, especially the black soldiers, since racism was a still major problem at that point. Meanwhile, like Pearl Harbor, all of the tanks, tracks and softskins were parked in endless, precisely lined up rows on the concrete of the motor pools, just 15 minutes or less flying time from Warsaw Pact airfields, perfect targets for cluster bombs or chemical munitions that would have neutered us before we even got out the gate. It could almost have been funny if it hadn't been so serious.

    Had the Russians actually had decent intelligence, they would have won hands down. Thankfully, they were dumber than we were.

    Recruiting slogans are for idiots who don't know any better. The most common whining complaint in Basic is "But...my recruiter promised me..."
    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
      They might need to be trained on how to shop. I rarely see young EMs in the Commissary. Not to say it's always the best deal on pricing but the essentials are usually below off post pricing.
      That is not the case here where reservist end up being deployed thus resulting in a family that has lost a large portion of their income, but not the bills. It has been a major problem in the country where a volunteer group called the one percent was formed locally to help with food aid to those needy families.

      https://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/i..._mills_sh.html
      “Breaking News,”

      “Something irrelevant in your life just happened and now we are going to blow it all out of proportion for days to keep you distracted from what's really going on.”

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by SRV Ron View Post

        That is not the case here where reservist end up being deployed thus resulting in a family that has lost a large portion of their income, but not the bills. It has been a major problem in the country where a volunteer group called the one percent was formed locally to help with food aid to those needy families.

        https://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/i..._mills_sh.html
        And the Reservists were called up because Congress allowed active military strength to decrease to dangerous levels. But no Congressman has ever needed food stamps or assistance.
        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

          Actually, the correct phrase which came about during Viet Nam was "Join the army, travel to exotic places, meet new people and kill them."
          Every service except the Air Force seemed to have had a similar phrase.
          Join The Navy; Sail To Far-off Exotic Lands, Meet Exciting Interesting People, And Kill Them.

          Join The Marines, Travel to Exotic Lands, Meet Strange People, And Kill Them.

          Flag: USA / Location: West Coast

          Prayers.

          BoRG

          http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8757/snap1ws8.jpg

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post

            May 65 $42.42, that's with some reductions.
            I enlisted in Brit Army 1954 at 1.10 ( one pound. ten ) a week plus shilling per day jump pay...... switched to the RCAF 1957 LAC (Airman first) $127 pm with no deductions plus $1 dollar per day flying pay for those of us certified....

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by SRV Ron View Post

              That is not the case here where reservist end up being deployed thus resulting in a family that has lost a large portion of their income, but not the bills. It has been a major problem in the country where a volunteer group called the one percent was formed locally to help with food aid to those needy families.

              https://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/i..._mills_sh.html
              On the reserve component. What has happened is that the top military brass has decided, for whatever reason, that the active part of the reserves (the part that regularly drills, etc.) should become sort of a temp service. That is, whenever the active military needs some warm bodies for a short period of time (anything up to a year) they'll call up some reservists to fill the slots. This is particularly true for more mundane jobs that require little specialized training, and for medical personnel who are trained as civilians to do those jobs.

              The result of this has been a dramatic shift in the make-up of the reserve components of the military. Decades ago the reserve was filled with very highly skilled and qualified people in civilian life. Often times, they were far more skilled and qualified than their rank in the military would have indicated. Then in the post 9/11 world, these individuals found they were being called up for months at a time to fill positions like security guard, warehouse worker, or other low end positions that some active component needed warm bodies for.

              At the same time, there was a shift in reserve component units away from more technical and skilled units towards ones that were basic support ones.

              The result of all that was the highly skilled and qualified people quit. They either retired early if they had 20+ years, or the simply quit. They found that this new model of reserve was neither satisfying in the work done, nor was it economically viable. It often hurt their civilian careers and earning ability. They saw their full-time civilian career as more important and the reserve job as a part-time one that no longer had any real benefit to offer.

              At the same time, the reserves started taking people that were not prior service and began filling up with minimum wage, low skill workers, students, and even welfare moms. For these individuals, the reserves was an extra paycheck every month. The possibility of being called up really didn't bother them as in many cases it was a pay raise over their civilian job.

              So, today's reserve component really isn't set up to expand the size of the military in the event of a war. It operates more like a temp service and doesn't even really expect most of the people in it to stay to retirement.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by SRV Ron View Post

                That is not the case here where reservist end up being deployed thus resulting in a family that has lost a large portion of their income, but not the bills. It has been a major problem in the country where a volunteer group called the one percent was formed locally to help with food aid to those needy families.

                https://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/i..._mills_sh.html
                That might be true. I was thinking more in the lines of active duty members.

                I still can't get over those lucky guys that got NYC BEQ or BOQ at $5,000 a month plus double dipped on their state salary while deployed.
                My worst jump story:
                My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                No lie.

                ~
                "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                -2 Commando Jumpmaster

                Comment


                • #23
                  I did not get married until I was an E-6, and the salary of an E-6 nowadays if 5 times as much as it was then, I just don't understand how a Military Family could go hungry, unless it is fake news or in most cases Fake Headlines.
                  Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Trung Si View Post
                    I did not get married until I was an E-6, and the salary of an E-6 nowadays if 5 times as much as it was then, I just don't understand how a Military Family could go hungry, unless it is fake news or in most cases Fake Headlines.
                    Or both...
                    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

                      On the reserve component. What has happened is that the top military brass has decided, for whatever reason, that the active part of the reserves (the part that regularly drills, etc.) should become sort of a temp service. That is, whenever the active military needs some warm bodies for a short period of time (anything up to a year) they'll call up some reservists to fill the slots. This is particularly true for more mundane jobs that require little specialized training, and for medical personnel who are trained as civilians to do those jobs.

                      The result of this has been a dramatic shift in the make-up of the reserve components of the military. Decades ago the reserve was filled with very highly skilled and qualified people in civilian life. Often times, they were far more skilled and qualified than their rank in the military would have indicated. Then in the post 9/11 world, these individuals found they were being called up for months at a time to fill positions like security guard, warehouse worker, or other low end positions that some active component needed warm bodies for.

                      At the same time, there was a shift in reserve component units away from more technical and skilled units towards ones that were basic support ones.

                      The result of all that was the highly skilled and qualified people quit. They either retired early if they had 20+ years, or the simply quit. They found that this new model of reserve was neither satisfying in the work done, nor was it economically viable. It often hurt their civilian careers and earning ability. They saw their full-time civilian career as more important and the reserve job as a part-time one that no longer had any real benefit to offer.

                      At the same time, the reserves started taking people that were not prior service and began filling up with minimum wage, low skill workers, students, and even welfare moms. For these individuals, the reserves was an extra paycheck every month. The possibility of being called up really didn't bother them as in many cases it was a pay raise over their civilian job.

                      So, today's reserve component really isn't set up to expand the size of the military in the event of a war. It operates more like a temp service and doesn't even really expect most of the people in it to stay to retirement.
                      Not really. I served in the National Guard in the 1980s, and we fielded an entire Armored (later, infantry) division. Most of the division was NG-only, no prior service.

                      Back then no one really believed we would get called up for actual service beyond riot or hurricane duty, and most training paperwork was fudged. The last time the NG had been called up for war was Korea.

                      When we got called up for Desert Storm there was a gross shortage of equipment (My unit didn't have a single operational vehicle or radio) and a complete absence of basic soldier skills. They had to run most units through a full training program before they could be committed.

                      My unit went from Federal muster to overseas; I hadn't fired a government-issue M-16 since I ETS'd from the Regular Army six years earlier, but since we were based out of a pension in Germany and later a very nice hotel in Kuwait we were able to adapt, improvise, and overcome. Especially since we left the bolts for our M-16s in Texas.

                      Luckily Desert Storm wasn't much more than a live-fire exercise.

                      Since then you're right, the Guard has turned over completely, and you rarely see a Guardsman without a right shoulder patch. And like the Regular Army most are single-termers. But they actually train, and have achieved commendable service records in their combat deployment.

                      Too much peace time makes a military decay. The Regular Army and Marines were not in much better shape in DS/DS because their lifers were just dead-weight military bureaucrats, the Vietnam-era types having largely retired.

                      The old Guard had E-5s with a decade+ of service and an iron-clad belief that they were never going to have to perform their mission for real. The new Guard knows it can and will deploy, and they are far better than any since the Korean War.

                      The Regular military is the same way: when you have commanding officers without combat service, the quality of the unit steadily decays. People stay in who shouldn't, and too many of the real warriors leave.
                      Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Trung Si View Post
                        I did not get married until I was an E-6, and the salary of an E-6 nowadays if 5 times as much as it was then, I just don't understand how a Military Family could go hungry, unless it is fake news or in most cases Fake Headlines.
                        OMG, read the source fkn https://www.military.com/spousebuzz/...ry-hunger.html
                        Last edited by Half Pint John; 28 Sep 18, 08:59.
                        "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                        Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                        you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          https://www.militaryrates.com/milita...rts-e1_e5_2019

                          https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Police_Officer/Salary/9d8677f9/Entry-Level


                          Less than half what a rookie cop gets. One that can go home every night and take a shower,spend the week end with the family.

                          somin isn't right!
                          "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                          Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                          you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            https://www.federalpay.org/military/army/ranks

                            http://www.armedforces.co.uk/armypay...p#.W65DdH-Wzwo

                            It seems that the US army pays the lower ranks less than the British army does. But then there is more scope for advancement for NCOs and WOs in the US. Swings and roundabouts.
                            "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post

                              Not really. I served in the National Guard in the 1980s, and we fielded an entire Armored (later, infantry) division. Most of the division was NG-only, no prior service.

                              Back then no one really believed we would get called up for actual service beyond riot or hurricane duty, and most training paperwork was fudged. The last time the NG had been called up for war was Korea.

                              When we got called up for Desert Storm there was a gross shortage of equipment (My unit didn't have a single operational vehicle or radio) and a complete absence of basic soldier skills. They had to run most units through a full training program before they could be committed.

                              My unit went from Federal muster to overseas; I hadn't fired a government-issue M-16 since I ETS'd from the Regular Army six years earlier, but since we were based out of a pension in Germany and later a very nice hotel in Kuwait we were able to adapt, improvise, and overcome. Especially since we left the bolts for our M-16s in Texas.

                              Luckily Desert Storm wasn't much more than a live-fire exercise.

                              Since then you're right, the Guard has turned over completely, and you rarely see a Guardsman without a right shoulder patch. And like the Regular Army most are single-termers. But they actually train, and have achieved commendable service records in their combat deployment.

                              Too much peace time makes a military decay. The Regular Army and Marines were not in much better shape in DS/DS because their lifers were just dead-weight military bureaucrats, the Vietnam-era types having largely retired.

                              The old Guard had E-5s with a decade+ of service and an iron-clad belief that they were never going to have to perform their mission for real. The new Guard knows it can and will deploy, and they are far better than any since the Korean War.

                              The Regular military is the same way: when you have commanding officers without combat service, the quality of the unit steadily decays. People stay in who shouldn't, and too many of the real warriors leave.
                              I was in the Navy Reserve through 2006.

                              When I first joined (1985) there were lots of really well qualified people, both officer and enlisted serving. I can remember a number of professional engineers who were Petty Officers, (one First Class / E-6 was the project manager for Tomahawk at Raytheon), and professional tradesmen like welders, electricians, mechanics, instrument makers, etc. There were a number of doctors and nurses in the medical units.

                              About 2000 or so that started to change radically. The call ups started and most of those people started to quit. They found their professional civilian lives were being ruined and didn't want that. That's when they started taking people that had no active duty service too. The welfare moms, minimum wage workers, and such started to fill up units. The medical units were getting short on qualified people because of retirements and people quitting.

                              The unit mix went from ship repair and supporting reserve ships to units that were basically there to rotate security guards through a base, or supply and support units that didn't require a lot of training.

                              Arizona's National Guard got rid of their combat units. They disbanded the Apache helicopter unit at Marana even though that one had plenty of pilots. They did away with most of the combat units and instead got things like quartermaster truck companies and other support units that don't require skilled personnel.

                              The Army Reserve downsized and did the same thing.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Lots of Ft. Carson troops at the commissary, WalMart and Sam's Club, and for awhile, lots of them on food stamps, too.

                                Getting married and having a family is a grown up decision process. If a couple out-performs their income, then they are obviously not mature enough to be in the situation they have created.

                                Funny thing, though - they all have nice cares, nice TV's and cigarettes.
                                Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                                Comment

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