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Puerto Rico and the hurricane back in the news.

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  • T. A. Gardner
    replied
    Originally posted by inevtiab1e View Post
    If people haven't noticed already, Donald lies for a living. Answer me this, is the study on the deaths based on any death reports in Puerto Rico since the hurricane?

    This is pretty simple math.

    Normal deaths in September for Puerto Rico = 1,000
    Deaths in September 2017 for Puerto Rico = 4,000
    Difference = 3,000 people from what is normal

    These are deaths related to the hurricane and wouldn't have happened if the hurricane didn't hit.

    It wasn't the Iceberg that killed the people on the Titanic, it was the aftermath.
    The study included, if you read it, deaths attributed to all sorts of things not directly related to the storm. For example, there was a rise in suicides. The storm itself didn't cause people to commit suicide. The storm didn't say "Commit suicide fool!" Yes, that's facetious, but it makes the point. Puerto Rico's substandard infrastructure and poor building quality caused much of the damage and problems that followed. That wasn't caused by the storm either. That was caused by neglect and people doing stuff that wouldn't stand up to the storm.
    The report didn't account for that. Instead, it simply assumed that the extra deaths were due to the storm, not government incompetence, not substandard Second- and Third-World building conditions, not a lack of preparation, but simply because the storm hit the island. Florida has learned over the years. They get hit all the time. You don't see them getting thousands of deaths, and mass destruction of buildings and infrastructure. Why? Because they'd adopted building standards and codes that prevent the destruction. They've put systems in place to deal with large storms and disasters. Puerto Rico didn't.

    So, the point isn't that if the hurricane hadn't hit they wouldn't have died, but rather if Puerto Rico had put the procedures and infrastructure in place to survive a hurricane-- which everyone on the planet knows would hit the island sooner or later-- then those deaths wouldn't have occurred. Same thing with the Titanic. Had the crew made sure each life boat had the maximum number of people in it many more would have survived. Had the ship had sufficient life boats for all passengers they'd of all survived. If the ship's design was better it wouldn't have sunk. For example, had the ship been equipped with a couple of large searchlights they could have seen the iceburg in time to avoid it. But, they didn't do that.

    You want to blame the results rather than the cause. I blame the cause and that was a general unpreparedness on Puerto Rico for a major hurricane.

    Leave a comment:


  • slick_miester
    replied
    Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post
    Without commenting on the actual numbers 'estimated' in the report, I will comment on some of the causes of the PR disaster being as bad as it was:

    1) Lack of a robust infrastructure. Having lived through hurricanes my entire life, and suffering ill effects of insufficient infrastructure personally (2 weeks without power because the power company thought it was a good idea to build a substation on cheap land in a flood plain), infrastructure problems are at once the worst problems and the easiest to identify (if somewhat costly to alleviate).

    2) Poor building codes. These only exascerbate the previous issue. While being no expert on construction, my knowledge comes from working for my grandfather, a general contractor, as a teenager on weekends, I can say on sight that a number of buildings in PR that were shown on various media would not have been up to code in the lower 48. This opens up all sorts of problems, from electricity to wind/water caused collapse, to foundational issues causing collapse due to saturated ground, and so on and so forth. The storm was huge, and I won't say that good codes would have ensured that all structures remained sound. However, more structures would have remained sound.

    3) Lack of Proper Planning. Let's face it, PR has a very short list of potential disasters. A place like Nebraska can have a blizzard one month and a flood the next, followed by a drought and followed by tornadoes. All in the same calendar year even. Puerto Rico has Hurricanes.....and......Hurricanes. You'd think these guys would be the past masters of hurricane preparedness, hurricane operations, and hurricane relief/mitigation. They ain't. North Carolina is only moderately good at it.....and we beat the pants off Puerto Rico for efficiency and effectiveness. FEMA shouldn't, and doesn't, jump in and take over local operations....it works with and through them....with the understanding that the locals have knowledge, contacts, and plans tailored to the needs of a specific area. As has been evidenced, most recently by the 'runway covered in water pallets'......FEMA was bringing in the goods, there were no local capabilities sufficient to the task of distributing them.

    4) Trump and the Media/Democrats using Puerto Rico as a political football. 'Nuff said there. . . . .
    Great post. I'd add to those reasons that you've listed explaining why Hurricane Maria was so hard on Puerto Rico:

    the closing of the US Navy installations on Vieques. Vieques is a small island just off the eastern coast of Puerto Rico. For many years the US Navy established installations there for use as training grounds. Over many years progressives in Puerto Rico and their Democratic sycophants in New York agitated for the closure of those USN bases. In 1999 a civilian security guard was killed by a stray munition during an exercise, which engendered many protests not only against the use of the area as a training ground, but also against the USN's presence. Long story short, the Clinton administration had the bases there closed, and after a period of lying fallow, and the USN losing interest in the place, the Geo W Bush administration ordered the places closed permanently.

    As USN bases located on the windward side of a tropical island, they were well-prepared for hurricanes, and to assist civilian communities on Vieques during and after storms. Once the USN was ordered out, no other party stepped up to fulfill the role the the USN had played in past natural disasters. That's a facet of the hurricane story that has been completely overlooked by virtually everybody;

    Leave a comment:


  • Half Pint John
    replied
    https://www.facebook.com/NowThisPoli...993495606/?t=0

    Leave a comment:


  • Massena
    replied
    Originally posted by inevtiab1e View Post
    If people haven't noticed already, Donald lies for a living.
    I'm shocked!

    I guess handing out paper towels in Puerto Rico didn't cut it.

    Leave a comment:


  • inevtiab1e
    replied
    If people haven't noticed already, Donald lies for a living. Answer me this, is the study on the deaths based on any death reports in Puerto Rico since the hurricane?

    This is pretty simple math.

    Normal deaths in September for Puerto Rico = 1,000
    Deaths in September 2017 for Puerto Rico = 4,000
    Difference = 3,000 people from what is normal

    These are deaths related to the hurricane and wouldn't have happened if the hurricane didn't hit.

    It wasn't the Iceberg that killed the people on the Titanic, it was the aftermath.

    Leave a comment:


  • Half Pint John
    replied
    Trump: No statehood for Puerto Rico with critics in office

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-no-...jtc_news_index

    He needs to take Civics 101 over again.


    Leave a comment:


  • TacCovert4
    replied
    Without commenting on the actual numbers 'estimated' in the report, I will comment on some of the causes of the PR disaster being as bad as it was:

    1) Lack of a robust infrastructure. Having lived through hurricanes my entire life, and suffering ill effects of insufficient infrastructure personally (2 weeks without power because the power company thought it was a good idea to build a substation on cheap land in a flood plain), infrastructure problems are at once the worst problems and the easiest to identify (if somewhat costly to alleviate).

    2) Poor building codes. These only exascerbate the previous issue. While being no expert on construction, my knowledge comes from working for my grandfather, a general contractor, as a teenager on weekends, I can say on sight that a number of buildings in PR that were shown on various media would not have been up to code in the lower 48. This opens up all sorts of problems, from electricity to wind/water caused collapse, to foundational issues causing collapse due to saturated ground, and so on and so forth. The storm was huge, and I won't say that good codes would have ensured that all structures remained sound. However, more structures would have remained sound.

    3) Lack of Proper Planning. Let's face it, PR has a very short list of potential disasters. A place like Nebraska can have a blizzard one month and a flood the next, followed by a drought and followed by tornadoes. All in the same calendar year even. Puerto Rico has Hurricanes.....and......Hurricanes. You'd think these guys would be the past masters of hurricane preparedness, hurricane operations, and hurricane relief/mitigation. They ain't. North Carolina is only moderately good at it.....and we beat the pants off Puerto Rico for efficiency and effectiveness. FEMA shouldn't, and doesn't, jump in and take over local operations....it works with and through them....with the understanding that the locals have knowledge, contacts, and plans tailored to the needs of a specific area. As has been evidenced, most recently by the 'runway covered in water pallets'......FEMA was bringing in the goods, there were no local capabilities sufficient to the task of distributing them.

    4) Trump and the Media/Democrats using Puerto Rico as a political football. 'Nuff said there.

    So, out of 4 major causes of the disaster (apart from the storm itself which is an act of God or 'chance'), 75% of them aren't Trump's fault.....and 25% of them are or could be.

    As for the "If Tac were able to" plan....well, PR wouldn't like me at all:

    1) Remind PR that it is a Territory of the United States and therefore under direct Federal Jurisdiction. I'd simply appoint the FEMA director as Territorial Governor and flat out remove any local administration members that I felt were in the way of a proper disaster relief plan.

    2) Send in 2 MEUs along with US Marshals. To do logistics and pull security/enforce law. Take disaster relief straight out of the hands of the incompetent local administrative apparatus and put it in the hands of at least an organized group of people who understand a chain of command and can follow orders.

    3) Send in the Army Corps of Engineers to evaluate all infrastructure. Again, putting Professionals on the job. Have them write up recommendations for building codes, infrastructure repairs and/or improvements, and 'future proofing' the territory against likely meteorological threats.

    4) In the post-emergency era, I would tie any and all federal aid to PR directly to strictly following the guidelines for infrastructure hardening as per the Corps of Engineers recommendations. If PR doesn't enact at least basic building codes, or put funds towards improving its infrastructure.....it doesn't get federal funds.

    Leave a comment:


  • Puerto Rico and the hurricane back in the news.

    You might have noticed, that Trump is saying he doesn't buy the George Town University finding on Maria that hit Puerto Rico last year.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cid=spartanntp

    On the flip side of that, the MSM is now bashing Trump as if the report is gospel. I doubt many, if any of the journalists reporting this bothered to even read the report.

    https://prstudy.publichealth.gwu.edu...rto%20Rico.pdf

    Briefly put, the report is an estimate based on other estimates. The report further makes no effort to separate deaths caused by inferior infrastructure and substandard construction methods on the island from other causes. It then dives into government based solutions for managing future disaster events... a largely useless exercise on its own. Basically, the report is as wild a guess as anything else. Yet, Trump is wrong and this report based on a guess is right according to the MSM.

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