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  • #61
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Yes.





    SRP and CAP (the water people) would otherwise either pump that effluent into the ground or put it in large shallow ponds for groundwater recharge. By selling it, even at a discount, to Palo Verde they are making money off it and most of it ends up as evaporate into the atmosphere



    Yep! I'd rent my pool out to store it if I could. Nothing really bad in that. First, the shipping containers are OMG indestructible. Second, the material is all alpha and beta emitters at low levels of radiation. You have to eat or breathe it in for it to harm you.
    This is what they do for the shipping containers to make sure they're safe


    ...
    Are you sure?

    http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...218-story.html


    Radiation leak forces closure at New Mexico waste burial site


    The Energy Department suspended normal operations for a fourth day at its New Mexico burial site for defense nuclear waste after a radiation leak inside salt tunnels where the material is buried.

    Officials at the site, known as the Waste Isolation Pilot Plant, or WIPP, activated air filters as a precaution and barred personnel from entering the 2,150-foot-deep repository as they investigate what caused the leak. Radiation sensors sounded alarms at 11:30 p.m. Friday, when no workers were in the underground portions of the plant.

    ...

    Edwin Lyman, a senior scientist at the Union of Concerned Scientists, said he believed the cause most likely involved radioactive material on the outside of a container that was not properly decontaminated. Waste is typically packaged into sealed containers. Any contamination on the outside of the containers normally would be cleaned, Lyman said.

    A less probable cause, he said, was a radiological process inside a container that forced material out. WIPP has acceptance criteria for the waste that is supposed to prevent such an accident.

    Lyman said the extent of the cleanup operation necessary to get the repository back in operation depended on the intensity and range of contamination in the underground tunnels.



    Another danger is that of fire which can ruin even the strongest steal. You like it or not, there are many things than can go wrong! From the same site

    Gill said the repository shutdown occurred earlier this month after another incident in which a truck caught fire in an underground tunnel. That matter is still under investigation.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Gixxer86g View Post

      Well, the irresponsible part isn't just a Jersey problem. For some reason, DMV hands out licenses to any idiot.
      But all the idiots I know were born in Jersey.

      Rimshot

      Don't b*tch: you walked into that one.
      I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

        But all the idiots I know were born in Jersey.

        Rimshot

        Don't b*tch: you walked into that one.
        Yeah, I did.

        But the point I was making was a serious one. Far too many people in this state are getting licenses when they shouldn't be.

        I've said this before, NJ has some of the worst drivers, and driving conditions, in the country. And as a result of that, also has some of the best drivers/riders in the country.
        ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

        BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

        BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Gixxer86g View Post

          Yeah, I did.

          But the point I was making was a serious one. Far too many people in this state are getting licenses when they shouldn't be.

          I've said this before, NJ has some of the worst drivers, and driving conditions, in the country. And as a result of that, also has some of the best drivers/riders in the country.
          One thing that I've noticed about NJ over the years: enforcement varies from minimal to nonexistent. In NYC they're pulling people over every minute, but in NJ even in locations known to be problematic, there's never any police presence. Right there on my inlaws' corner, one cop for 20 hrs a week would jump that town's revenue an easy 50%. Except for blacks, lousy drivers in NJ never see a cop. What the hell do the cops do out there?
          I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by pamak View Post

            Are you sure?

            http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...218-story.html


            Radiation leak forces closure at New Mexico waste burial site


            The Energy Department suspended normal operations for a fourth day at its New Mexico burial site for defense nuclear waste after a radiation leak inside salt tunnels where the material is buried.

            Officials at the site, known as the Waste Isolation Pilot Plant, or WIPP, activated air filters as a precaution and barred personnel from entering the 2,150-foot-deep repository as they investigate what caused the leak. Radiation sensors sounded alarms at 11:30 p.m. Friday, when no workers were in the underground portions of the plant.

            ...

            Edwin Lyman, a senior scientist at the Union of Concerned Scientists, said he believed the cause most likely involved radioactive material on the outside of a container that was not properly decontaminated. Waste is typically packaged into sealed containers. Any contamination on the outside of the containers normally would be cleaned, Lyman said.

            A less probable cause, he said, was a radiological process inside a container that forced material out. WIPP has acceptance criteria for the waste that is supposed to prevent such an accident.

            Lyman said the extent of the cleanup operation necessary to get the repository back in operation depended on the intensity and range of contamination in the underground tunnels.



            Another danger is that of fire which can ruin even the strongest steal. You like it or not, there are many things than can go wrong! From the same site

            Gill said the repository shutdown occurred earlier this month after another incident in which a truck caught fire in an underground tunnel. That matter is still under investigation.
            Okay, so they had a leak. The system in place detected it and they cleaned it up. What's the difference between that and any other hazardous material storage? Why is radioactive material made out as something terrifying when it's not? Whatever leaked was at most an alpha or beta emitter. It could be cleaned up.

            Show that the fire resulted in the release of radioactive material. I'd bet the truck burned and that was that. This is simply hysteria on your part. You are making out radioactive material as something exponentially more dangerous than other industrial hazardous waste. It isn't. In fact, there are lots and lots of far more dangerous things being stored in far less stringent conditions than radioactive material.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

              One thing that I've noticed about NJ over the years: enforcement varies from minimal to nonexistent. In NYC they're pulling people over every minute, but in NJ even in locations known to be problematic, there's never any police presence. Right there on my inlaws' corner, one cop for 20 hrs a week would jump that town's revenue an easy 50%. Except for blacks, lousy drivers in NJ never see a cop. What the hell do the cops do out there?
              That really depends. They're out there.

              I don't know how far I want to push this discussion, as it would be " politically incorrect".
              ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

              BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

              BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

              Comment


              • #67
                I bet it'd help if the street signs in NJ were in Spanish...

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

                  Okay, so they had a leak. The system in place detected it and they cleaned it up. What's the difference between that and any other hazardous material storage? Why is radioactive material made out as something terrifying when it's not? Whatever leaked was at most an alpha or beta emitter. It could be cleaned up.
                  I am just pointing out that we should not take it for granted that nuclear storage is 100% safe. There are many things that can go wrong from earthquakes to terrorism to human error. Imagine for example if the accident was during the transportation of the container to the site and not after it was delivered there. Sure, the system is designed to cope with failures, but we can never talk about a bulletproof system whenever we deal with nuclear power used for any purpose from nuclear missiles to nuclear plants.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by pamak View Post

                    I am just pointing gout that we should not take it for granted that nuclear storage is 100% safe. There are many things that can go wrong. Imagine for example if the accident was during the transportation of the container to the site and not after it was delivered there. Sure, the system is designed to cope with failures, but we can never talk about a bulletproof system whenever we deal with nuclear power used for any purpose from nuclear missiles to nuclear plants.
                    I'd point out there are few, if any, things that are 100% safe. Storage of nuclear waste is as safe as it can possibly be, which is far safer than storage of most other hazardous waste.

                    As for accidents during transport, I showed two videos of some of the testing. The containers can survive fires, being hit by a locomotive, dropped from insane heights, and virtually anything else. How much safer can they be? The containers are bullet proof, and then some.

                    Since waste materials from reactors are all alpha and beta emitters at low levels of output-- that's because the radioactive part of spent fuel is 99.9% long half life radioactives that decay very slowly-- and almost entirely solids, it isn't too hard to clean up after some gets out.

                    If anything, the long term storage of spent fuel from commercial reactors on site in cooling pools is far less safe than moving it to a repository like Yucca Mountain. The reason it isn't happening is hysterical fear of things nuclear brought on by propaganda against things nuclear.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                      I bet it'd help if the street signs in NJ were in Spanish...
                      And Hindi, Arabic, and Korean. And also sent via text. And the signs should also include huge letters for the geezers.

                      But we're WAY off topic now....
                      ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

                      BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

                      BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

                        I'd point out there are few, if any, things that are 100% safe. Storage of nuclear waste is as safe as it can possibly be, which is far safer than storage of most other hazardous waste.

                        As for accidents during transport, I showed two videos of some of the testing. The containers can survive fires, being hit by a locomotive, dropped from insane heights, and virtually anything else. How much safer can they be? The containers are bullet proof, and then some.

                        Since waste materials from reactors are all alpha and beta emitters at low levels of output-- that's because the radioactive part of spent fuel is 99.9% long half life radioactives that decay very slowly-- and almost entirely solids, it isn't too hard to clean up after some gets out.

                        If anything, the long term storage of spent fuel from commercial reactors on site in cooling pools is far less safe than moving it to a repository like Yucca Mountain. The reason it isn't happening is hysterical fear of things nuclear brought on by propaganda against things nuclear.
                        And I say that I do not accept the claim that we can feel safe because the containers are"bullet proof."

                        The claim that they can survive fires does not mean that they can survive ALL types of fires. To use your analogy, just because something is "bullet proof" it does not mean that it can protect you from every gunshot and any distance.

                        And all it takes is that you have radio active material contaminate water. Try to clean that....

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by pamak View Post

                          And I say that I do not accept the claim that we can feel safe because the containers are"bullet proof."

                          The claim that they can survive fires does not mean that they can survive ALL types of fires. To use your analogy, just because something is "bullet proof" it does not mean that it can protect you from every gunshot and any distance.
                          You know nothing and are simply putting forward typical ill-informed nonsense. Your uninformed opinion means nothing. Do you have anything actually factual to add on this subject? Otherwise I'm through because your irrelevant logical fallacies hold no merit in further discussing this.

                          I'll add, you likely don't know what an alpha or beta emitter is, nor the types and effects of the various types of radiation or dosages that would be dangerous. Instead, you appear to substitute a growing use of the slippery slope argument while demanding ever more detailed proof.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                            The car show Everyday Driver put the Tesla Model S head-to-head against the Chevrolet Volt. Long story short: in terms of value, the Volt won, hands down. The extra $20,000 worth of bells, whistles, and politically correct cachet that differentiates the Tesla from the Volt simply aren't worth it. As an everyday, drive around town kind of car, the Volt performs quite satisfactorily.

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NczZmNep5HI
                            And the Volt absolutely sucks. It was never really more than a pre-production model that Obama forced GM to put on the market. The Volt has since been superceeded by the Bolt, which has worked out many of the bugs of the original, and is selling relatively well (but way below normal models). Ford alone hopes to have something like 42 models of electric and hybrid vehicles on the market by 2022. In fact, they are banking to company on it.

                            Tuebor

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                              On hydrogen: If "Green" and zero-pollution from a vehicle is to be the end game then hydrogen makes sense. Yes, the biggest issue right now is storage, but I have little doubt that can be overcome at some point. What is needed is a cheap way to crack the hydrogen from other molecules. That would be using nuclear power to provide cheap electricity. That's a long term solution.

                              But, there's no room for useless solutions to pollution like battery cars.
                              I'm a little wary of H2. Not sure how idiot proof it can be made, especially during refueling.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

                                You know nothing and are simply putting forward typical ill-informed nonsense. Your uninformed opinion means nothing. Do you have anything actually factual to add on this subject? Otherwise I'm through because your irrelevant logical fallacies hold no merit in further discussing this.

                                I'll add, you likely don't know what an alpha or beta emitter is, nor the types and effects of the various types of radiation or dosages that would be dangerous. Instead, you appear to substitute a growing use of the slippery slope argument while demanding ever more detailed proof.
                                Yes, I do!

                                Here it is!

                                http://www.nap.edu/read/21874/chapter/5

                                From

                                Committee on Lessons Learned from the Fukushima Nuclear Accident
                                for Improving Safety and Security of U.S. Nuclear Plants

                                Nuclear and Radiation Studies Board

                                Division on Earth and Life Studies

                                Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Accident: Lessons Learned for Spent Fuel Storage


                                RECOMMENDATION 2.1: The U.S. nuclear industry and its regulator should give additional attention to improving the ability of plant operators to measure real-time conditions in spent fuel pools and maintain adequate cooling of stored spent fuel during severe accidents and terrorist attacks. These improvements should go beyond the current post-Fukushima response to include hardened and redundant (1) physical surveillance systems (e.g., cameras), (2) radiation monitors, (3) pool temperature monitors, (4) pool water-level monitors, and (5) means to deliver pool makeup water or sprays even when physical access to the pools is limited by facility damage or high radiation levels.

                                Now feel free to make your counter points through youtube videos

                                Comment

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