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Demise of the battery car and Tesla

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

    And there is the severe problem of recycling or disposing of those lithium ion batteries.
    Not to mention that the recoverable amount of lithium on the planet is insufficient to make enough batteries to power them.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Persephone View Post
      When Obama became POTUS, he wanted to allow the rest of the world a chance to play world leader.
      He made America stand down and propped up other countries.
      It's senseless to give Obama credit for any sort of new thinking since he was far to narcissistic to see anything beyond his own reflection. He bowed to many masters but did not serve hi own masters here in America - the American people. Those he "yielded" to were Muslim leaders and nations associated with terrorism.

      You won't see Europe step up, ever. Britain - not a chance. Canada - less chance than Britain. Eastern Asia - no way.

      Any such attempt to "hand over" the role will not work because the only major nations willing to take over are those who want to run everything and everyone else - Russia, China and the Caliphate fanatics. Everyone else is aware of the huge expense and the endless burden. Even the UN, which should by law and design be overseeing the peace of the world, is totally useless and primarily maintained and supported by America anyway.
      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

        The unions which feature so prominently in your post are one of the major reasons why the once thriving auto industry went under. Same for steel. It comes down to product costs in an intensely competing world-wide market place.
        Our ancestors had to at times fight for equal working rights. This was a case of the blue collard Americans being brave and going up against thugs and scabs.

        Unions are needed though in the Prison, LE , Auto and Steel industry...especially today.. I know Americans whom have been fired due to false complaints...well that is where a Union is needed.

        It was poor American leadership that caused the downfall of the middle class jobs in the USA. Its a matter of if you build it they will come...our country once produced over half of the worlds steel now we are not even top 3 in steel production.

        The US leadership needs to cut off cheap foreign labor sources(and God be with the Chinese , NK, and Venezuelan workers these are good people getting an unfair paycheck)

        Traditional Unions are as American as baseball. Yes I agree some modern day Union leaders and Democratic politicians are nothing like they used to be. But my Dad, Grandpa, Uncle all had great Union Jobs. Just think about, especially in todays political climate, American workers need protection. And its a need, we need good middle class jobs with Unions and that is through American Steel Unless we want single parents raising kids, kids going to home after school to a home where the parents are on crack or heroin leading to a poor upbringing for many inner city children, we need to bring back the steel and auto jobs.




        President Franklin Roosevelt signs the National Labor Relations Act of 1935
        Act on July 5, 1935. With Rep. Theodore A. Peyser (D-NY, left) and U.S.Secretary of Labor Frances Perkins (right).

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...ns_Act_of_1935

        More then anything America needs another FDR. We also need the younger generations to step up and pay homage to the great Americans of the past whom made it possible for America to be the strongest country in the world after WW2. If we dont regain the middle class jobs the country is in trouble.
        Last edited by Stonewall_Jack; 19 Aug 18, 19:42.
        Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
        Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

        George S Patton

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post

          Our ancestors had to at times fight for equal working rights. This was a case of the blue collard American being brave and going up against thugs and scabs.
          I have to disagree. The days of the abusive robber barons are long gone, and the Age of Regulation and Litigation has taken it's place. There is no proof that abuse takes place today in the absence of unions, and plenty of proof that the presence of unions leads to corruption, disruption and hugely increased expenses.

          It was unions, for example, who demanded that firemen be retained for years on diesel locomotives.

          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

          Comment


          • #35
            Nothing beats a American muscle car with a V8 engine like the Mustang GT. Americans dont want these little electric cars, they certainly want to feel the car and have power. That is American strength in motion. Europeans are the same they have the BMW and Mercedes Benz. European men and women in France, Germany, Italy all want to have a good middle class with strong factory jobs.
            Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
            Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

            George S Patton

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

              I have to disagree. The days of the abusive robber barons are long gone, and the Age of Regulation and Litigation has taken it's place. There is no proof that abuse takes place today in the absence of unions, and plenty of proof that the presence of unions leads to corruption, disruption and hugely increased expenses.

              It was unions, for example, who demanded that firemen be retained for years on diesel locomotives.
              I know a Army Veteran aged 83 whom had a good Union job working as a Train conductor, a long time poker friend of mine. He is a huge admirer of FDR.

              Yes some Union leaders of the modern times are weak. But our ancestors only succeed because they had protected Union jobs. Yes today some blue collard Americans have been ruthlessly fired due to false complaints that is why today the traditional Unions and traditional American spirit is needed more then ever.
              Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
              Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

              George S Patton

              Comment


              • #37
                Tesla ****ed up by not listening to the experts, no chance of an alternate fuel for the next twenty years, battery technology included.
                My worst jump story:
                My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                No lie.

                ~
                "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                -2 Commando Jumpmaster

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                  I have to disagree. The days of the abusive robber barons are long gone, and the Age of Regulation and Litigation has taken it's place. There is no proof that abuse takes place today in the absence of unions, and plenty of proof that the presence of unions leads to corruption, disruption and hugely increased expenses.

                  It was unions, for example, who demanded that firemen be retained for years on diesel locomotives.
                  Gee, you must have missed all the reporting of toxic management these days. Unions can protect against the assholes that are in leadership positions that have no clue.
                  My worst jump story:
                  My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                  As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                  No lie.

                  ~
                  "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                  -2 Commando Jumpmaster

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

                    Which part of less than 2% of vehicles would use them didn't you get? There's no demand for them. The ones here in Phoenix are in commercial parking lots and on public streets. Hasn't stopped their being vandalized and damaged. The German government is building them because that's their agenda. People aren't buying battery cars in large numbers. In the US it's even worse because the vehicles are insanely impractical.

                    For example, if I were to want to drive a Nissan Leaf, the most "popular" selling all-electric car in the US right now, from my house to Mesa Arizona on the far side of the Phoenix metro area and then back to my house, I'd have to make hotel reservations because I'd have to spend about 6 to 10 hours (depending on charge rate) charging the vehicle up to make the return trip. It can't make the round trip.

                    A Tesla can't drive from Phoenix to Flagstaff on a single charge. A round trip from Phoenix to Tucson requires a charge be made.

                    It's not like this is the first time a government has backed loser technology betting on it as "the future." It's like solar in Germany. Sounds good but is a fail in practice. Germany shut down their few nuclear plants only to find they couldn't produce enough reliable energy. So, now they're building more "clean coal" plants to replace them. How myopically stupid is that?

                    California is no better here. They have the occasional brown out and even black outs periodically now due to their "green" energy policy. You'd think you were in Cuba or Venezuela where they can't consistently keep the lights on.
                    The average commute per day in the Bay Area is 172 miles with heavy traffic. A 39 mile drive from San Francisco to Mountain View usually takes a minimum of 90 minutes. A battery car here is only good enough for running short errands or for people such as at-home moms and old ladies. No sane working person will use one for daily commute.

                    A friend bought a battery car a year ago. I can't remember the model, it may have been a Chevy, but I'm not sure because I have never seen it. Anyhow, this guy was bragging about his work place, an engineering firm in San Jose giving out bonuses to employees that will by an electric car and even had the parking lot reconfigured because of charging stations installations. The spaces will be assigned so the workers with the electric cars get to park directly in front closest to the entrance. The employer will also pay for the electrical work to for those that wanted to install 440/660/880 etc at home for better charging efficiency and also pay the increase in the home electrical bill. What incentive! And he went on and on about how much money he was going to save by never having to buy gas and the electricity is subsidized by the employer.

                    Of course I bring up the range issue, but he told me he had crunched all the numbers and it will work out just fine. He even snubbed me by reminding me that he is an engineer and ALL he does is use formulas and crunch numbers. So he took his bonus up front to help with the down payment for an electric car and had electrical work done at his house. He even cheated and bought a new giant screen TV (he earned it with all the money he'll save from never buying gas again) so he could stick the employer with that additional increase in his electrical bill. The day after all the ducks were in order, he traded in his Mini Cooper for that electric car. The very next day, driving his brand new electric wonder car to work, he was caught in traffic and his car was running out of juice. Damn thing died after he pull off the freeway to desperately get to a charging station. AAA towed him 12 miles to his work place where he thought he was home free with his reserved recharging parking space. Not a problem. Fully juiced up for the trip home. Alas, on his return trip, due to a SF Giants game, he got caught in traffic again. Yep. Towed again. In one single day he used up his entire year's quota of free tows from AAA, which wasn't free because his Gold Membership only allowed 5 miles of towing, the rest of the miles have to be paid by the AAA member himself.

                    Shitty first day? Not done yet. While electric car was still charging in his garage, he got a phone call that his mom just went into the hospital in Sacramento. Car not charged and did he want to risk it even if it was? Did he really want to miss out on seeing mom possibly for the last time if his battery died again or he had to recharge somewhere? Nope. He tried Uber and Lyft, but no one will take the job. He called a cab. Cabs charge double the meter for out of town because of the empty return trip. Hey, and guess how he got back to SF after visiting mom at the hospital and finding she'll be fine and will be discharged in the morning?

                    Day 2 of electric car ownership: Used a sick day, took electric car back to dealer to trade it back in. Guess what he bought? His Mini Cooper that he owned just one day ago, only it is now worth much more to the dealership, than a day earlier. Oh well, at least it is now cleaner and shinier than a day ago, and now with a fresh fragrance. It was a very expensive lesson to him. He went from a "Gung Ho"greenie to "Frack This"!

                    Last edited by Salinator; 20 Aug 18, 21:43.
                    Flag: USA / Location: West Coast

                    Prayers.

                    BoRG

                    http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8757/snap1ws8.jpg

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Republicans happy that American businesses are failing. Interesting.
                      "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
                      - Benjamin Franklin

                      The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
                        Republicans happy that American businesses are failing. Interesting.
                        Some businesses should never have been started. The "Green" revolution is mostly an expensive bust. If a company needs massive and continuous government subsidy beyond insurance for really big projects, it's probably a company that needs to fail. Tesla rode government subsidies for decades now. The whole solar industry is heavily subsidized and couldn't make a profit if it wasn't.

                        I want what makes sense and works, not what somebody feels we need and wants because it makes them happy.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Some solar makes sense, a black spray painted copper pipe can create steam. If you can make steam you can create power.
                          Credo quia absurdum.


                          Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Salinator View Post
                            The average commute per day in the Bay Area is 172 miles with heavy traffic. A 39 mile drive from San Francisco to Mountain View usually takes a minimum of 90 minutes. A battery car here is only good enough for running short errands or for people such as at-home moms and old ladies. No sane working person will use one for daily commute.

                            A friend bought a battery car a year ago. I can't remember the model, it may have been a Chevy, but I'm not sure because I have never seen it. Anyhow, this guy was bragging about his work place, an engineering firm in San Jose giving out bonuses to employees that will by an electric car and even had the parking lot reconfigured because of charging stations installations. The spaces will be assigned so the workers with the electric cars get to park directly in front closest to the entrance. The employer will also pay for the electrical work to for those that wanted to install 440/660/880 etc at home for better charging efficiency and also pay the increase in the home electrical bill. What incentive! And he went on and on about how much money he was going to save buy never having to buy gas and the electricity is subsidized by the employer.

                            Of course I bring up the range issue, but he told me he had crunched all the numbers and it will work out just fine. He even snubbed me by reminding me that he is an engineer and ALL he does is use formulas and crunch numbers. So he took his bonus up front to help with the down payment for an electric car and had electrical work done at his house. He even cheated and bought a new giant screen TV (he earned it with all the money he'll save from never buying gas again) so he could stick the employer with that additional increase in his electrical bill. The day after all the ducks were in order, he traded in his Mini Cooper for that electric car. The very next day, driving his brand new electric wonder car to work, he was caught in traffic and his car was running out of juice. Damn thing died after he pull off the freeway to desperately get to a charging station. AAA towed him 12 miles to his work place where he thought he was home free with his reserved recharging parking space. Not a problem. Fully juiced up for the trip home. Alas, on his return trip, due to a SF Giants game, he got caught in traffic again. Yep. Towed again. In one single day he used up his entire year's quota of free tows from AAA, which wasn't free because his Gold Membership only allowed 5 miles of towing, the rest of the miles have to be paid by the AAA member himself.

                            Shitty first day? Not done yet. While electric car was still charging in his garage, he got a phone call that his mom just went into the hospital Sacramento. Car not charged and did he want to risk it even if it was? Did he really want to miss out on seeing mom possibly for the last time if his battery died again or he had to recharge somewhere? Nope. He tried Uber and Lyft, but no one will take it. He called a cab. Cabs charge double the meter for out of town because of the empty return trip. Hey, and guess how he got back to SF after visiting mom at the hospital and finding she'll be fine and will be discharged in the morning?

                            Day 2 of electric car ownership: Used a sick day, took electric car back to dealer to trade it back in. Guess what he bought? His Mini Cooper that he owned just one day ago, only it is now worth much more now to the dealership, than a day earlier. Oh well, at least it is now cleaner and shinier than a day ago, with now with a fresh fragrance. It was a very expensive lesson to him. He went from "Gung Ho" to "Frack This"!


                            What to hear the story of how Berta Benz the wife of Karl Benz made the first drive of distance from Mannheim to Pforzheim in one of the first gasoline power cars ?
                            AUG. 12, 1888: ROAD TRIP! BERTA TAKES THE BENZ

                            https://www.wired.com/2010/08/0812be...rst-road-trip/

                            Guess how long it takes today after advancements in road, energy supply and cars.

                            Stay here in the present, soon to be the past and watch how the world advance without the US into the future.


                            "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                            Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                            you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              No sane person drives 179 mile per day to get to work. How much time and money (life) are they wasting on the road? Move!!!!!!!!!
                              "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                              Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                              you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Folks reading this thread have now been able to see how Tesla for example has been given 1 billion USD$ by the NYS Gov to set up a plant in the Buffalo area in a former Steel sight. All that money and all it got was a few hundred non union jobs in an area that was once a boom town with tens of thousands of jobs alone offered by Republic Steel.

                                Biggest of all those employees of Tesla can be fired at any moment. And its the NYS Gov that brought in Tesla when it should have brought in a American steel or auto company with the Union. The current NYS Gov is going against the legacy of FDR and the men and women, black and white Christian alike of the Buffalo area whom helped the allies win WW2. The NYS Gov should support American steel, auto and factory jobs. Following images are from a Union meeting here in Buffalo during WW2 in 1943,


                                Last edited by Stonewall_Jack; 20 Aug 18, 19:59.
                                Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                                Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                                George S Patton

                                Comment

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