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  • If it's this bad in just one state

    What is it like across the whole USA? Across the world? A grand jury report in Pennsylvania identifies over 1,000 cases of child sex abuse by priests and it is reckoned there are probably many many more.

    The Pennsylvania Supreme Court has released a grand jury report detailing sex abuse in the Catholic Church, naming over 300 accused clergymen.

    The landmark grand jury investigation found more than 1,000 children had been abused by members of six dioceses in the state for the last 70 years.

    Officials say the probe found systematic cover-ups by the church.
    "We believe that the real number - of children whose records were lost or who were afraid ever to come forward - is in the thousands."
    I don't believe that Pennsylvania would be unique so multiply that by the number of other states adjusting for the proportions of each state. then extend it to the rest of the World. What a sea of misery down the decades. How many lives have been blighted?. Some may argue over the number of priests involved but what is truly shocking is that the Church has consistently covered up their activities. Their official response so far amounts to little more than ' oohps sorry, we must ask for forgiveness'.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45190355
    Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
    Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

  • #2
    Some of the report was redacted and it should not be. This needs to be brought out into the open and if the statute of limitations has not run its course, prosecuted within the full extent of the law. This is monstrous. And the coverups make it worse. Senior Church officials, bishops and the like, are just as bad as the perpetrators as they made a conspiracy of evil.

    Comment


    • #3
      From the time when Jesus threw out the money changers to the present, the rulers in the Catholic Church created the conditions for such sinning by their own through their age old tradition and rituals. Then, from the Pope on down, they refused to do something about the problem. Instead, they used the collection plate to pay out hush money to the parents and reassigned the predator involved to another Parish where he could find new victims to molest and abuse.

      From my six year experience working for a local Catholic Church as a teacher at their elementary school, I have no sympathy for the Catholic Church should the Fake News Media decide to condemn them for such disgusting behavior. Rumors were that Father Xxxxxx should never be left alone with any of the students there. The church leaders need to burn in hell along with the molesters for their failure to stop such behavior. He was still there when I left and likely reassigned to another Parish soon after.
      “Breaking News,”

      “Something irrelevant in your life just happened and now we are going to blow it all out of proportion for days to keep you distracted from what's really going on.”

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Massena View Post
        This is monstrous. And the coverups make it worse. Senior Church officials, bishops and the like, are just as bad as the perpetrators as they made a conspiracy of evil.
        You're missing the point. The abuse couldn't be that widespread without senior officials being involved in it. They were once parish priests, too. Any normal human would be disgusted with it. If they weren't, what does that tell you?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by johns624 View Post
          You're missing the point. The abuse couldn't be that widespread without senior officials being involved in it. They were once parish priests, too.
          No, I didn't. I included the senior officials in my posting. They are involved in it because they covered it up, which makes the problem infinitely worse. If they were also guilty as priests, then that is a pattern of behavior that was being perpetuated.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by MarkV View Post
            What is it like across the whole USA? Across the world? A grand jury report in Pennsylvania identifies over 1,000 cases of child sex abuse by priests and it is reckoned there are probably many many more.





            I don't believe that Pennsylvania would be unique so multiply that by the number of other states adjusting for the proportions of each state. then extend it to the rest of the World. What a sea of misery down the decades. How many lives have been blighted?. Some may argue over the number of priests involved but what is truly shocking is that the Church has consistently covered up their activities. Their official response so far amounts to little more than ' oohps sorry, we must ask for forgiveness'.

            https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45190355
            Actually, that isn't even necessary. The church automatically forgives them.

            I'm not sure which is worse - the Islamic fanatics or the Catholic church. At least the Islamics are pen about their agenda.

            Comment


            • #7
              To answer the OP's question, this kind of thing can be common just about anywhere. It was a matter of Vatican policy for forty or fifty years.

              https://forums.armchairgeneral.com/f...31#post4425831

              That being said, let's not delude ourselves into thinking that sexual abuse of children is a uniquely Roman Catholic thing. It's not. Accusations -- and criminal convictions -- abound from Protestant, Orthodox, Jewish, and Muslim clerics, the world over. And it's not restricted to religious bodies. Boy Scouts, PAL coaches, public school teachers: not merely individuals connected with those institutions, but the various institutions themselves have, like the Roman Catholic Church, conspired to conceal crimes and shield perpetrators from justice. Again addressing the OP's question, it's probably worse than he suspects, probably a lot worse.

              And just to add to the consternation, within the OP's country, the situation might be worse still. PIE, an organization founded to advance the interests of pederasts in the UK, gained a level of acceptance and credibility that its US counterpart, NAMBLA, coudn't even dream of. I've long suspected that the recent rash of revelations about widespread pedophilia in the UK was made possible by the infiltration of PIE members and/or PIE sympathizers into responsible positions, like police officers, social workers, prosecutors, etc. Can't prove it, but the facts there tend to support such suspicions. Therefore it's eminently possible that pedophilia in the UK is even worse than that reported in Pennsylvania. I am not saying that Britons are somehow more prone to perversion: that's ridiculous on its face. What I am saying is that the institutions that should be looking out for the welfare of children have been compromised, and that that has engendered a climate not only encouraging of more criminality, but also of more conspiring to shield the offenders from publicity and justice. When the interests of institutions take precedence over the interests of children, these kinds of outrages become, sadly, de rigueur, as common as dirt.
              I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                To answer the OP's question, this kind of thing can be common just about anywhere. It was a matter of Vatican policy for forty or fifty years.

                https://forums.armchairgeneral.com/f...31#post4425831

                That being said, let's not delude ourselves into thinking that sexual abuse of children is a uniquely Roman Catholic thing. It's not. Accusations -- and criminal convictions -- abound from Protestant, Orthodox, Jewish, and Muslim clerics, the world over. And it's not restricted to religious bodies. Boy Scouts, PAL coaches, public school teachers: not merely individuals connected with those institutions, but the various institutions themselves have, like the Roman Catholic Church, conspired to conceal crimes and shield perpetrators from justice. Again addressing the OP's question, it's probably worse than he suspects, probably a lot worse.

                And just to add to the consternation, within the OP's country, the situation might be worse still. PIE, an organization founded to advance the interests of pederasts in the UK, gained a level of acceptance and credibility that its US counterpart, NAMBLA, coudn't even dream of. I've long suspected that the recent rash of revelations about widespread pedophilia in the UK was made possible by the infiltration of PIE members and/or PIE sympathizers into responsible positions, like police officers, social workers, prosecutors, etc. Can't prove it, but the facts there tend to support such suspicions. Therefore it's eminently possible that pedophilia in the UK is even worse than that reported in Pennsylvania. I am not saying that Britons are somehow more prone to perversion: that's ridiculous on its face. What I am saying is that the institutions that should be looking out for the welfare of children have been compromised, and that that has engendered a climate not only encouraging of more criminality, but also of more conspiring to shield the offenders from publicity and justice. When the interests of institutions take precedence over the interests of children, these kinds of outrages become, sadly, de rigueur, as common as dirt.
                However, the Catholic Church stands at the pinnacle of hiding and defending these criminal perverts. The rest of the world treats them like the criminals that they are, and they don't "forgive" them, either.

                Remember - this is a religion allegedly preaching the "word of God". I don't think pedophelia is what Jesus had in mind when he allegedly said "Suffer the little children to come unto me."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                  To answer the OP's question, this kind of thing can be common just about anywhere. It was a matter of Vatican policy for forty or fifty years.

                  https://forums.armchairgeneral.com/f...31#post4425831

                  That being said, let's not delude ourselves into thinking that sexual abuse of children is a uniquely Roman Catholic thing. It's not. Accusations -- and criminal convictions -- abound from Protestant, Orthodox, Jewish, and Muslim clerics, the world over. And it's not restricted to religious bodies. Boy Scouts, PAL coaches, public school teachers: not merely individuals connected with those institutions, but the various institutions themselves have, like the Roman Catholic Church, conspired to conceal crimes and shield perpetrators from justice. Again addressing the OP's question, it's probably worse than he suspects, probably a lot worse.

                  And just to add to the consternation, within the OP's country, the situation might be worse still. PIE, an organization founded to advance the interests of pederasts in the UK, gained a level of acceptance and credibility that its US counterpart, NAMBLA, coudn't even dream of. I've long suspected that the recent rash of revelations about widespread pedophilia in the UK was made possible by the infiltration of PIE members and/or PIE sympathizers into responsible positions, like police officers, social workers, prosecutors, etc. Can't prove it, but the facts there tend to support such suspicions. Therefore it's eminently possible that pedophilia in the UK is even worse than that reported in Pennsylvania. I am not saying that Britons are somehow more prone to perversion: that's ridiculous on its face. What I am saying is that the institutions that should be looking out for the welfare of children have been compromised, and that that has engendered a climate not only encouraging of more criminality, but also of more conspiring to shield the offenders from publicity and justice. When the interests of institutions take precedence over the interests of children, these kinds of outrages become, sadly, de rigueur, as common as dirt.
                  It is world wide. In the UK parents spend £35k a year so that their children can be abused at Catholic schools. I can’t understand the mindset of a parent who would put their children in such jeopardy as to send them to a Catholic boarding school.

                  Cof E also has a reputation for child abuse as of course do council social workers, particularly those working at care homes. Like the Catholic Church, councils and the Cof E have sought to hide it.

                  Any organisation where teachers/social workers have a high degree of power over children is going to attract a lot of paedaphiles into its ranks.
                  As a parent you have to pick an educational institution where the risks to your child are going to be minimised. Clearly avoid any religious schools, particularly boarding schools. Avoid your child being in the sole company of teachers alone for extended periods of time etc.
                  "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                    However, the Catholic Church stands at the pinnacle of hiding and defending these criminal perverts. The rest of the world treats them like the criminals that they are, and they don't "forgive" them, either.
                    The UFT retained attorneys and paid hundreds of thousands of dues-payers' dollars in legal fees -- going all the way to the US Court of Appeals -- to keep a single pederast in the classroom. Surely that has to rank up there with what the RCC has done.

                    What, at least in my mind, makes the Roman Catholic Church unique is two fold: 1) its global reach, and 2) its definable and readily recognizable hierarchical structure. No matter where you go, from Point Barrow to Tierra del Fuego, from Midway east to Sydney, you know that there are RCC parishes and dioceses and archdioceses, and you know that there are monsignors and bishops and archbishops, and that they're all answerable to the Pope in Rome. I can think of no other organization or institution that so combines those two traits so completely. Armies feature discernible and strictly defined hierarchical structures, but they're not global in their reach. Organized crime is global, but its structure isn't nearly so defined. Those two characteristics in combination afford the RCC the capacity to do things that no other organization can match, but at the same time, they render the organization vulnerable in a way that few others are. It's a curious combination, to say the least, that confers power and vulnerability, and the opportunity to do good and ill to practically immeasurable degrees.

                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    Remember - this is a religion allegedly preaching the "word of God". I don't think pedophelia is what Jesus had in mind when he allegedly said "Suffer the little children to come unto me."
                    Won't argue with you there. Clearly it's a violation of mission. But can't the same be said of schools that have concealed such crimes among their teachers?
                    I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MarkV View Post
                      What is it like across the whole USA? Across the world? A grand jury report in Pennsylvania identifies over 1,000 cases of child sex abuse by priests and it is reckoned there are probably many many more.





                      I don't believe that Pennsylvania would be unique so multiply that by the number of other states adjusting for the proportions of each state. then extend it to the rest of the World. What a sea of misery down the decades. How many lives have been blighted?. Some may argue over the number of priests involved but what is truly shocking is that the Church has consistently covered up their activities. Their official response so far amounts to little more than ' oohps sorry, we must ask for forgiveness'.

                      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45190355
                      Over 1,000 cases within 70 years? These cases are difficult to prosecute unless there are witnesses and a lot of evidence. Doubtful anything will come of it.
                      My worst jump story:
                      My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                      As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                      No lie.

                      ~
                      "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                      -2 Commando Jumpmaster

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Surrey View Post

                        It is world wide. In the UK parents spend £35k a year so that their children can be abused at Catholic schools. I can’t understand the mindset of a parent who would put their children in such jeopardy as to send them to a Catholic boarding school.
                        Here's how the same thing happened at an institution known for producing, among other things, students known for their hostility towards religion.

                        https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...e-mann/419085/

                        Famous alumni include Arthur Hayes Sulzburger, Barry Sheck, Eliot Spitzer, Renee Richards.

                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horace...Notable_alumni

                        Think of it as New York's version of Eton.
                        I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                          To answer the OP's question, this kind of thing can be common just about anywhere. It was a matter of Vatican policy for forty or fifty years.

                          https://forums.armchairgeneral.com/f...31#post4425831

                          That being said, let's not delude ourselves into thinking that sexual abuse of children is a uniquely Roman Catholic thing. It's not. Accusations -- and criminal convictions -- abound from Protestant, Orthodox, Jewish, and Muslim clerics, the world over. And it's not restricted to religious bodies. Boy Scouts, PAL coaches, public school teachers: not merely individuals connected with those institutions, but the various institutions themselves have, like the Roman Catholic Church, conspired to conceal crimes and shield perpetrators from justice. Again addressing the OP's question, it's probably worse than he suspects, probably a lot worse.
                          Slick,

                          I'll dig up more specifics when I have a bit more time and post them here & on the relevant Australian thread, but we recently had a Royal Commission into this topic in Australia (I'm not sure what the US equivalent is, but this type of enquiry has extensive powers and is the most powerful type of investigative body we have). The Commission ran for almost 5 years and covered all manner of institutions, religious & otherwise. Something like 9000 abuse survivors testified. The final report was handed down in December last year.

                          Something like 61% of all reported abuse cases in religious institutions were Catholic institutions. To offer some perspective, the percentage of the population that identifies as Catholic has never risen much above 25%. While the Royal Commission figures may not be a completely accurate picture of the problem, the disproportion is truly striking.

                          This has happened all over the world. I recall a while back one of the default apologist positions (backed by at least one Pope) was to blame this on the influence of 'permissive' societies like America. Just recently the current Pope sacked every single Chilean bishop for their role in covering up abuse. And then there are the scandals in once conservative Ireland. Turns out that the only reason these issues came up in 'permissive' societies first was that they were the first societies to challenge the authority of the Church.

                          As you point out, these issues have happened in all manner of institutions, religious and secular. I suspect greater awareness means that that the worst of it is behind us, but there is still a mountain of work to be done giving justice to those who have been abused and ensuring there are no more victims.

                          Human beings are the only creatures on Earth that claim a god and the only living thing that behaves like it hasn't got one - Hunter S. Thompson

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by BF69 View Post
                            . . . . Something like 61% of all reported abuse cases in religious institutions were Catholic institutions. To offer some perspective, the percentage of the population that identifies as Catholic has never risen much above 25%. While the Royal Commission figures may not be a completely accurate picture of the problem, the disproportion is truly striking. . . . .
                            I can't speak intelligently of Australia's demographics and culture. Perhaps the figures you cite denote something unusual in Australian culture: a good many Irish Catholics did . . . . relocate to Australia during the 19th century, people possessed of Fenian and anti-authority leanings, did they not? Or possibly this figure attests to the efficacy of the Vatican's campaign to conceal offenses and shield offenders from publicity and criminal justice. Or maybe this indicates that, to date, only Roman Catholic victims have come forward, while victims from other backgrounds have thus far remained silent. Those are all distinct possibilities.

                            For example, one has only to look at the Hasidic children in Brooklyn to know that their community is rife with inbreeding. For generations, they were reviled by their Christian neighbors, and they viewed all outsiders as representatives of evil, so their isolation, even within the confines of one of the world's great cities, was nearly hermetical. Therefore every member of their community knew not to "air their dirty laundry" to the Goyim, the outsiders. Additionally, as a consequence of their isolation and internal closeness, the Hasidim have been able to develop a political culture where by they exert disproportionate influence on the political stage, such that no prosecutor will touch them, not if he wants a second term in office.

                            https://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/11/n...ent-rules.html
                            https://www.astm.org/DIGITAL_LIBRARY.../JFS14231J.htm

                            Tales of sexual abuse among Hasidim have only become public relatively recently, while tales of sexual abuse among Roman Catholics have been widespread for far longer. Similarly, Protestant congregations may be as plagued by child sexual predators as Roman Catholic.

                            http://thewartburgwatch.com/2017/07/...ong-catholics/

                            As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the Roman Catholic Church's unique characteristics of unmatched global reach, readily discernible and rigid hierarchical structure, and at least in the US context, a prevailing view of Roman Catholicism as an alien influence, has rendered the RCC more vulnerable to suspicion and accusations of wrongdoing. I mean, surely the RCC isn't the only institution to put up a "blue wall of silence" in the face of suspicions and accusations of wrongdoing -- but at least among religious institutions, due to their bureaucratic structure, the RCC was the only one stupid enough to put their policy of silence -- omerta -- in writing.

                            Originally posted by BF69 View Post
                            This has happened all over the world. I recall a while back one of the default apologist positions (backed by at least one Pope) was to blame this on the influence of 'permissive' societies like America. Just recently the current Pope sacked every single Chilean bishop for their role in covering up abuse. And then there are the scandals in once conservative Ireland. Turns out that the only reason these issues came up in 'permissive' societies first was that they were the first societies to challenge the authority of the Church.
                            Catholics put their pants on one leg at a time too. Like Muslims enjoying . . . . privileges with children

                            https://www.apnews.com/ddd9660f63ae4433966684823f79d3e9
                            https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...buse-pederasty

                            and slave-owners in the Antebellum South enjoying sexual privileges with their slaves, people tend to fight -- fight violently and viciously -- to preserve their rights to abuse their social inferiors. Consider it the dark side of Homo sapiens' nature, and don't think for a minute that such a trait doesn't go back to the Great Flood, and that it's anything less than universal.

                            Originally posted by BF69 View Post
                            As you point out, these issues have happened in all manner of institutions, religious and secular. I suspect greater awareness means that that the worst of it is behind us, but there is still a mountain of work to be done giving justice to those who have been abused and ensuring there are no more victims.
                            I fear that we've only just scratched the surface. Our children have been suffering at our hands since . . . . since . . . . as far back as any of us care to remember.
                            I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Late and not strong enough:

                              https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/16/us/pe...nse/index.html

                              The Roman Catholic hierarchy in the United States, and elsewhere, needs a complete shakeup with those bishops responsible in any way for the criminal abuse being replaced and then defrocked. They are not worthy of their office.

                              Comment

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