Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Double standards in how we cover Saudi Arabian and Iranian behavior and statements

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Massena
    replied
    What's a 'dictatot'? A junior type of dictator or a baby going through the 'terrible twos'?

    Leave a comment:


  • ljadw
    replied
    ISIS was not a byproduct of the Iraqi insurgency;ISIS is the result of the decision of the liberals after the invasion of Iraq, to destroy the structures of Iraq and to impose on Iraq liberal capitalism made in America .This created a vacuum where the scum of Iraq,liberated from prison,without a job, as the swamp liberals dismantled the police,were entering and with the help of Turkey and Iran were spreading over the Middle East .
    Nothing of this all would have happen if Washington had decided to replace Saddam by an other, more pliant ,dictator .
    Every one knows, except the liberals, that in the ME you have only two choices : a dictator, or ISIS.
    Last edited by ljadw; 24 Aug 18, 14:31.

    Leave a comment:


  • pamak
    replied
    Originally posted by Emtos View Post

    I'm ethnically 75% Russian but I never was Russian citizen or lived in Russia.



    There were such cases :

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of...rian_Civil_War

    UN report:

    http://undocs.org/A/68/663http://undocs.org/A/68/663

    ISIS will not use chemical weapons for propaganda since it will push to take more active actions against them. A terrorist organisation with WMD is much more dangerous than a simple terrorist organisation.

    Regarding neutral observers, there are few of them. All the non-governmental agencies have strong ties to western elites and are per consequent not objective in their reporting. White Helmets is just the most known exemple.
    I went over it, and you are right that there are recorded cases verified by the UN about use of chemicals which killed or injured government affiliated soldiers (and in one case civilians too). I also noticed the following: Almost all of these incidents (with one exception) are recorded in the chart I provided earlier. All of them come from 2013, and in all cases the origin is considered questionable because inspectors could not access the site to collect fragments for security reasons. I presume, the point is that a chemical casualty may be even a product of mishandling old chemical warfare equipment or a result of a leak from a CW stockpile after say an enemy conventional bombardment, so lack of access tp the side of the incident makes it difficult to know how a chemical casualty came to be.

    It is also interesting that after 2013 the same commission gives in all cases (which are many) the government (Assad) as the origin of chemical attacks, and there is not a single case of an attack affiliated with any rebel (or ISIS). So, even if we accept that there had been a few cases in the beginning of the war when some type of rebels used (captured maybe) chemicals, it is still difficult to deny that Assad has not used chemical weapons extensively throughout the whole war, at least according to the reports of the international commissions I see.

    AS for ISIS, I do not see them as being reluctant from using chemical weapons for fear of a strong response. They have not hesitated up until now to go after everybody in the region. If anything, they may actually have a good reason to invite Americans and westerners i the region hoping that the Arab insurgency will find a new target and perhaps such development will create new opportunities for an ISIS revival. As we recall, ISIS was a byproduct of the Iraqi insurgency.
    Last edited by pamak; 24 Aug 18, 04:18.

    Leave a comment:


  • Emtos
    replied
    Originally posted by pamak View Post

    I asked if you are a Russian living in Belgium; No answer..
    I do not have a problem to say that I am a Greek living in the US
    I'm ethnically 75% Russian but I never was Russian citizen or lived in Russia.

    Originally posted by pamak View Post
    As I said, destruction of some chemicals does not mean declaration and destruction of all chemicals. Nor does it mean that one can monitor the production of such chemicals.

    I also posted a map from a UN agency and there is no recorded case there of chemicals used against The Syrian Army. The map has about 30+ different chemical strikes and as you can see all of them are characterized as coming from the government with the exception of a couple when no determination has been made regarding the origin.

    We also have reports in many cases of witnesses on the ground, including from humanitarian workers (neutral observers) who link chemical attacks to helicopter and airplane attacks which is another indication that they are coming from the Syrian army

    As for if they have found some chemical s in Islamist controlled areas, I will remind you the situation in Iraq during the Iraqi invasion. Many times they found chemicals (mostly old stock) in rebel controlled areas but we never had chemical attacks to produce the number of casualties we see in Syria. Such chemicals were mostly useless. So, the claim that they found some chemicals somewhere, means nothing. More than that, it does not make sense not to have ISIS using its CW capabilities for propaganda.

    As for the red line that the US drew, it is just one part of the equation in Assad's calculations The other one is that Assad also knows that he is secure from a US invasion against Syria because of both Russia and the sentiment in the US public against farther wars, and interventions. I do not reject the claim that it would be advantageous for the rebels to stage a Chemical attack and blame it to Assad, but I do not see the rebels willing to gass their children nor do I see them having helicopters and airplanes, nor do I see how neutral observers and different agencies can consistently miss to detect such rebel tactics.
    There were such cases :

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of...rian_Civil_War

    UN report:

    http://undocs.org/A/68/663http://undocs.org/A/68/663

    ISIS will not use chemical weapons for propaganda since it will push to take more active actions against them. A terrorist organisation with WMD is much more dangerous than a simple terrorist organisation.

    Regarding neutral observers, there are few of them. All the non-governmental agencies have strong ties to western elites and are per consequent not objective in their reporting. White Helmets is just the most known exemple.

    Leave a comment:


  • pamak
    replied
    Originally posted by ljadw View Post
    The Union of Medical Care and Relief Organisations includes a Turkish group, given that Turkey is ruled by the dictator Erdogan, this is enough to question the neutrality of this organisation which was allowed by ISIS to work in ISIS territory .We know enough : an other DS organisation financed by USAID, thus by Brennan's CIA .
    The fact that an organization includes a Turkish group does not mean that this group can dictate to everybody else their actions. A really neutral organization SHOULD actually include members from every side who wants to participate!

    Leave a comment:


  • pamak
    replied
    Originally posted by ljadw View Post
    ...
    Every day Assad is saving European and American lives by killing ISIS terrorists,thus those who criticize him and remain silent about the atrocities from ISIS and its allis in Turkey and Iran, are criticizing Assad because he is fighting ISIOS and are thus the allies of ISIS .
    Assad is doing what the West should do,but is not doing because it is too coward ,it is : killing ISIS terrorists,those who have murdered thousands of western civilians .
    Up until now, you have presented NOTHING for the reported allegations you read in articles.

    I wil insist on countering your gross distortions based on rumors which you try to use to justify Assad's actions with actual and verifiable FACTS!



    some additional information about the Syrians who side with the Turks in the Afrin region

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkis...ee_Syrian_Army

    The Turkish-backed Free Syrian Army (abbreviated as TFSA), partially reorganized as the Syrian National Army(Arabic: الجيش الوطني السوري‎, translit.al-Jayš al-Watanī as-Sūrī, Turkish: Suriye Millî Ordusu) by Turkey since 30 May 2017,[4] is an armed Syrian opposition structure mainly composed of Syrian Arab and Syrian Turkmen rebels operating in northern Syria, mostly being a part of Operation Euphrates Shield or groups active in the area that are allied to the groups participating in the operation.[5][6]

    The formation of the Syrian National Army was officially announced on 30 December 2017 in Azaz.[1] The general aim of the group is to assist Turkey in creating a "safe zone" in Syria and to establish a National Army, which will operate in the land gained as a result of Operation Euphrates Shield and the Hawar Kilis Operations Room.[7] They are opponents of the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), ISIL and the Syrian government's Syrian Arab Army, though as yet, they have had few engagements against the Syrian Army.[6] The TFSA also has a law enforcement equivalent, the Free Police, which is also backed by Turkey but separate from the TFSA.


    http://en.zamanalwsl.net/news/article/31991

    (Zaman Al Wasl)- At least 30 rebel factions operating under the banner of Syria’s interim government have merged in a unified armed group after four months of preparations, Prime Minister said on Saturday.

    Jawad Abu Hatab, the head of the opposition's Interim government and the Defense Minister, announced forming of the National Army after meeting with moderate rebel commanders in the town of Azaz in Aleppo province.

    The newly-formed body has 22,000 fighters, some of them have been trained and equipped by Turkey.

    Here are their pictures! Theses are FACTS, not allegations or rumors! Do they look like ISIS ? Does their flag look like an ISIS flag?


    3e02d21900135e09e7efc9bc.jpg
    Last edited by pamak; 23 Aug 18, 18:47.

    Leave a comment:


  • pamak
    replied
    Originally posted by Nichols View Post

    You are trying to weasel your way out of a hole that you dug yourself into with your 'facts'



    You are trying to deflect/misdirect again....as usual.

    What does ISIS defeating anyone have to do with the Administration supplying them with equipment?
    I try to make you THINK!

    If this is considered a defection, it is because you chose to live in the land of paranoia!

    Now, unless you have any counterpoint to explain WHY my comment is not logical, I do not see any reason to take your ALLEGATIONS seriously. If one tries to use the fact that some US weapons ended up in ISIS' hands as evidence that the US (or anybody else) was supplying ISIS with equipment, he makes a dumb allegation using dumb evidence!

    BUT, still I want to thank you for actually helping me with my conversation with the other two posters here because your intervention shows how easy it is for someone to find "reported" allegations about even the most improbable things, such as having a US citizen and former military professional serving abroad who claims that the US government supports ISIS (and you are not the only one American citizen who spreads such nonsense ALLEGATIONS based on the observation that some US weapons ended up in ISIS' hands). This is exactly what is happening in other parts of the world from people there who have similar agendas to yours: that is attack the opposition to gain some political advantage even if they have to use lies, misinformation and distortion of the truth!
    Last edited by pamak; 23 Aug 18, 18:12.

    Leave a comment:


  • pamak
    replied
    Originally posted by ljadw View Post

    There is no difference between ISIS and the rebels .For the rest, I do not care what you and the other members of the ISIS lobby are saying .
    Ohh yes, there is! There are different rebels. Ask the humanitarian workers there! When we have reports from a place in which humanitarian workers can still function, ISIS is not in charge.

    Leave a comment:


  • pamak
    replied
    Originally posted by ljadw View Post
    The Union of Medical Care and Relief Organisations remains silent when ISIS uses CW ( at least 52 times following the NYT from November 21 2016 ), thus the Union supports ISIS.
    Turkey supports ISIS : proofs
    1 NYT from April 14 2018 : after the liberation of the city, the rebels werre evacuated to northern Syria occupied by Turkey ,
    2 NYT from March 18 2018 :Syrian rebels,backed by Turkey,seize control of Afrin that was encircled by the Turkish army .
    The Turkish army encircled a Syrian city .!!
    Business Insider :April 17 2018 :deadly gas attack reported on civilians in a Syrian rebel enclave .Thus Douma was a base of ISIS.This is also confirmed by the Guardian from April 8 2018 .
    Every day Assad is saving European and American lives by killing ISIS terrorists,thus those who criticize him and remain silent about the atrocities from ISIS and its allis in Turkey and Iran, are criticizing Assad because he is fighting ISIOS and are thus the allies of ISIS .
    Assad is doing what the West should do,but is not doing because it is too coward ,it is : killing ISIS terrorists,those who have murdered thousands of western civilians .
    You do not give any links!

    Not only that, but as I have shown so far, you consistently use articles that report CLAIMS which have not been verified. It is like you are not aware that there is a propaganda war going on in parallel with the real war. An article in a newspaper which says "reported" says EXACTLY what you hear: REPORTED! You do not know the actual facts without having some type of fact finding investigation there. So stop using articles about reports, and start using the results of actual investigations on the ground by different neutral (as neutral as it is possible) organizations. And no, you are not convincing when you say that the medical care and relief organizations working there support ISIS. You have ZERO evidence for that. Of course, if you treat every rumor that is reported as a fact, then the absence of verification by witnesses on the ground becomes proof of hiding "facts" that you have created in your mind as a result of your preconceived beliefs which are based in the first place on reported rumors and allegations.

    And no! When I give you a map in which Douma WAS NOT in an ISIS control territory, and that there were humanitarian workers there, you cannot create facts that you pull out of your rear. The map separates the REBEL controlled territory from the ISIS controlled one.


    As for Afrin, I know about the Turkish operations there. The Greek news media pay attention to the Turkish operations in Syria. I also know the geography which shows that Afrin and the Turkish controlled area in Syria is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy away from Douma. In fact, it is shorter distance to evacuate someone from Douma to the ISIS controlled territories that you can see on the map than evacuate people from Douma to the Turkish controlled territory. Also operations of Turkey against AfrIn do not mean that they were supporting ISIS! The video of the Turkish soldiers burned alive by their ISIS captors was actually in response of the Turkish operations in the region near Afrin. You arrive at conclusions that do not make sense!
    Last edited by pamak; 23 Aug 18, 17:44.

    Leave a comment:


  • pamak
    replied
    Originally posted by Emtos View Post

    The destruction of Syrian chemical weapons was conducted with the supervision of OPCW. So either Assad proceeded to hide a part of chemical weapons, or the case when such weapons were used, it wasn't done by the Syrian army.

    We know that chemical weapons were also used against Syrian army and that facilities to produce them were found in islamist controlled areas. So the enemies of Assad certainly produced and used chemical weapons.

    Regarding image of Assad in western media, I think it's something he cares about. Use of chemical weapons was declared a red line by US and it was the pretext for several attacks on Syria. On the other hand it's very advantageous for the rebels to use it in order to get the western assistance. Assad doesn't need the chemical weapons to win the war.
    I asked if you are a Russian living in Belgium; No answer..
    I do not have a problem to say that I am a Greek living in the US

    As I said, destruction of some chemicals does not mean declaration and destruction of all chemicals. Nor does it mean that one can monitor the production of such chemicals.

    I also posted a map from a UN agency and there is no recorded case there of chemicals used against The Syrian Army. The map has about 30+ different chemical strikes and as you can see all of them are characterized as coming from the government with the exception of a couple when no determination has been made regarding the origin.

    We also have reports in many cases of witnesses on the ground, including from humanitarian workers (neutral observers) who link chemical attacks to helicopter and airplane attacks which is another indication that they are coming from the Syrian army

    As for if they have found some chemical s in Islamist controlled areas, I will remind you the situation in Iraq during the Iraqi invasion. Many times they found chemicals (mostly old stock) in rebel controlled areas but we never had chemical attacks to produce the number of casualties we see in Syria. Such chemicals were mostly useless. So, the claim that they found some chemicals somewhere, means nothing. More than that, it does not make sense not to have ISIS using its CW capabilities for propaganda.

    As for the red line that the US drew, it is just one part of the equation in Assad's calculations The other one is that Assad also knows that he is secure from a US invasion against Syria because of both Russia and the sentiment in the US public against farther wars, and interventions. I do not reject the claim that it would be advantageous for the rebels to stage a Chemical attack and blame it to Assad, but I do not see the rebels willing to gass their children nor do I see them having helicopters and airplanes, nor do I see how neutral observers and different agencies can consistently miss to detect such rebel tactics.

    Leave a comment:


  • Emtos
    replied
    Originally posted by pamak View Post

    You are a Russian in Belgium?

    I do not know that ALL Syrian chemical weapons were destroyed. Nor do I know what additional chemical weapons have been produced

    As for the why, I can only speculate, but I certainly would not think that for Assad the negative image in the western media would be part of his calculation at least as long as he has Russia to protect him. A weapon's military value can simply be psychological.

    What I find more difficult to explain is why do we have sooo many different sources condemning Syria? iIt is not just the US and its closer allies. And when I say "closer allies" I do not include every NATO country. The Iraq invasion has demonstrated that NATO does not simply accept what the US says. I see international organizations and human rights organizations condemning the regime, and we know that the US does not have the best relationship with such bodies even though it can control UN proceedings because of its veto power. (just like other big powers).

    Here is another example by a UN commission which includes an Egyptian and a Brazilian official. https://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/HR...ographies.aspx


    https://www.ohchr.org/SiteCollection...calWeapons.jpg

    COISyria_ChemicalWeapons.jpg
    The destruction of Syrian chemical weapons was conducted with the supervision of OPCW. So either Assad proceeded to hide a part of chemical weapons, or the case when such weapons were used, it wasn't done by the Syrian army.

    We know that chemical weapons were also used against Syrian army and that facilities to produce them were found in islamist controlled areas. So the enemies of Assad certainly produced and used chemical weapons.

    Regarding image of Assad in western media, I think it's something he cares about. Use of chemical weapons was declared a red line by US and it was the pretext for several attacks on Syria. On the other hand it's very advantageous for the rebels to use it in order to get the western assistance. Assad doesn't need the chemical weapons to win the war.

    Leave a comment:


  • ljadw
    replied
    The Union of Medical Care and Relief Organisations remains silent when ISIS uses CW ( at least 52 times following the NYT from November 21 2016 ), thus the Union supports ISIS.
    Turkey supports ISIS : proofs
    1 NYT from April 14 2018 : after the liberation of the city, the rebels werre evacuated to northern Syria occupied by Turkey ,
    2 NYT from March 18 2018 :Syrian rebels,backed by Turkey,seize control of Afrin that was encircled by the Turkish army .
    The Turkish army encircled a Syrian city .!!
    Business Insider :April 17 2018 :deadly gas attack reported on civilians in a Syrian rebel enclave .Thus Douma was a base of ISIS.This is also confirmed by the Guardian from April 8 2018 .
    Every day Assad is saving European and American lives by killing ISIS terrorists,thus those who criticize him and remain silent about the atrocities from ISIS and its allis in Turkey and Iran, are criticizing Assad because he is fighting ISIOS and are thus the allies of ISIS .
    Assad is doing what the West should do,but is not doing because it is too coward ,it is : killing ISIS terrorists,those who have murdered thousands of western civilians .

    Leave a comment:


  • pamak
    replied
    Originally posted by Emtos View Post

    I'm in Belgium. We know that Syrian chemical weapons were destroyed. We also should ask the question why the use of those weapons by the regime. It has no military value and it gives a negative image in western media.
    You are a Russian in Belgium?

    I do not know that ALL Syrian chemical weapons were destroyed. Nor do I know what additional chemical weapons have been produced

    As for the why, I can only speculate, but I certainly would not think that for Assad the negative image in the western media would be part of his calculation at least as long as he has Russia to protect him. A weapon's military value can simply be psychological.

    What I find more difficult to explain is why do we have sooo many different sources condemning Syria? iIt is not just the US and its closer allies. And when I say "closer allies" I do not include every NATO country. The Iraq invasion has demonstrated that NATO does not simply accept what the US says. I see international organizations and human rights organizations condemning the regime, and we know that the US does not have the best relationship with such bodies even though it can control UN proceedings because of its veto power. (just like other big powers).

    Here is another example by a UN commission which includes an Egyptian and a Brazilian official. https://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/HR...ographies.aspx


    https://www.ohchr.org/SiteCollection...calWeapons.jpg

    COISyria_ChemicalWeapons.jpg
    Last edited by pamak; 23 Aug 18, 11:34.

    Leave a comment:


  • ljadw
    replied
    The Union of Medical Care and Relief Organisations includes a Turkish group, given that Turkey is ruled by the dictator Erdogan, this is enough to question the neutrality of this organisation which was allowed by ISIS to work in ISIS territory .We know enough : an other DS organisation financed by USAID, thus by Brennan's CIA .

    Leave a comment:


  • ljadw
    replied
    Originally posted by pamak View Post

    BS!

    You do not give any source

    I gave the map, and the city was controlled by rebells while the ISIS controlled areas were clearly away from Douma



    20180414_wom983_0.png




    Also, the fact that there were report by medical personnel and humanitarian workers there shows that it was not controlled by ISIS

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douma_chemical_attack

    The chemical attack in Douma reportedly happened on 7 April 2018. The Union of Medical Care and Relief Organizations, a humanitarian organization that supervises medical services in the region, attributed seventy deaths to the attack. On-site medics reported smelling a chlorine-like odour, but that symptoms and death toll pointed to something more noxious such as sarin nerve agent caused the deaths.[7] A video from the scene showed dead men, women, and children with foam at their mouths.[31]

    Also, you do not give a source about any evacuation of any terrorist towards the Turkish area. Did you read Kurdish sources again? Not to mention that a simple look at the map shows that Douma is not near the Turkish controlled area!

    You will not distort facts to support your bigotry against Iran or Muslims. At least you will not do it unchallenged!
    There is no difference between ISIS and the rebels .For the rest, I do not care what you and the other members of the ISIS lobby are saying .

    Leave a comment:

Latest Topics

Collapse

Working...
X