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Double standards in how we cover Saudi Arabian and Iranian behavior and statements

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  • ljadw
    replied
    Non intentional attacks of civilians are legal ,otherwise war would be impossible .And, there is no proof that civilians were intentionally attacked with poison gas . Besides, it is not possible to do this and there is no reason to do this .
    Assad used poison gas against ISIS and the allies of ISIS, people who are responsible for the death of thousands of western civilians ,these attacks resulted in civilian casualties,which are regrettable, but not the responsibility of Assad ,but of ISIS: it was ISIS who used these civilians as a human shield ,hoping on a win-win situation : if Assad attacked them, there would be civilian casualties, which would give the allies of ISIS the occasion to whine, if he did not attack,these cities would be sanctuaries :Obama's air attacks in Lybya and the Turkish air attacks against the Kurds in Anatolia resulted also in civilian losses, but the hypocrites in the west preferred to remain silent .And, where was Deep State when, with the US approval, Saddam Hussein was gazing the Iraqi Kurds ?
    Since 1978 the Kurds are fighting for their independence from Turkey,in this war tens of thousands have been killed, mostly civilians . But the ''international community '' remained silent : Kurdish children killed by Erdogan are quantité negligable , but children who are used as hostages by ISIS are used against Assad .
    Almost 2000 civilians were killed by the international anti ISIS coalition during the battle of Raqqa, but Deep State remained silent .

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  • pamak
    replied



    Originally posted by ljadw View Post
    That Assad used poison gas in his war against the enemies of the West, is not a reason for the West to intervene in this war on the side of its enemies .
    What Assad is doing in HIS country is not the business of foreigners .
    US liberals used CW in Vietnam,but no one used this as a pretext to help the VC.
    About Turkey : there are countless proofs that Turkey helped ISIS directly and indirectly: by its invasion of Iraq and Syria, by selling weapons to ISIS ,by giving ISIS convoys the authorization to pass through Turkey . Or maybe you think that these convoys came from Mars ?
    The supplies for ISIS passed through Turkey and Kurdistan,who are the neighbours of Syria.

    On August 25 2015 ,the Turkish newspaper Bugün published the story of the transfer of weapons and explosives from Turkey to ISIS,through the border post of Akcakale under the observation of Turkish border guards. The Turkish dictator Erdogan closed the newspaper .

    In april 2018, the the liberal Foreign Policy said that in 2013 alone 30000 ISIS members traversed Turkey .
    Both ISIS and Turkey have a common enemy : the Kurds, thus why should they fight against each other ?
    You mean against the civilians and babies who were killed because they were our enemies?


    Syria_News_Guide-640_x2.jpg




    If your idea is that it is not our business if Assad poisons his people, then I will say that it is not our business if Iran does not want an independent Kurdistan. Recall that it was part of the deal for the formation of an Iraqi government to have a Kurdistan which was not an independent state. And the US had agreed to such terms! I will also say that it is not our business to fight Israel's war when the latter is more than capable to protect itself from occasional mortar grounds from Hezbollah or other Iranian proxies.

    Also, there are no countless stories of Turkey selling weapons to ISIS. You make things up and you choose to say things that only newspapers of the opposition decide to publish (the newspaper you mention belongs to the US-based Turkish cleric Gullen)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fethullah_Gülen

    As I told you, we know from Iraq's case that defectors and the opposition cannot be trusted just because they oppose a bad guy. So, NEVER accept at face value what they say without farther corroboration from other sources. When the direct sources we have include clear videos of Turkish soldiers burned alive by ISIS with messages by ISIS addressing specifically Turkey, and when we have clear Turkish attacks against ISIS (more on that at the bottom of the post), it is obvious that we have direct and strong evidence of the fact that Turkey actually fights ISIS which is not based on allegations or rumors we read in articles. The fact that ISIS has the Kurds as its enemy does not mean that it is willing to be an ally with anybody who is against the Kurds. Assad is also against the Kurds! Iraq is also against the Kurds and still ISIS is against both Assad and Iraq. ISIS is a radical organization which has not shown signs that it is interested in any power sharing or in accepting compromise with allies, even temporary ones!

    As for your second source, its author is also a Turk named Ahmet S. Yayla who also lives in the US. if you actually read the article, it does not say Turkey helped (at least intentionally) ISIS. His claim is that they neglected to take early measures against it. From his article'

    By all accounts, foreign fighters from around the globe first traveled to Turkey and then on to Iraq and Syria, forming the backbone and striking power of the Islamic State. In 2013 alone, some 30,000 militants traversed Turkish soil, establishing the so-called jihadi highway, as the country became a conduit for fighters seeking to join the Islamic State. By August 2015, Turkey did eventually tighten up its borders and agree to engage in strike missions as part of Operation Inherent Resolve, but by then, the lion’s share of foreign fighters had already arrived in Iraq and Syria.

    Turkey never had a secure southern border. I know this very well because I have followed the Kurdish movement in Turkey for years since the Kurds were a nature ally of Greece since in case of a war, they were going to be the "second front". Kurdish groups frequent crossed the borders from Syria to Turkey and back to Syria during their wars against Turkey! Here is an older article describing the decades old Turkish-Kurdish fight

    https://webcache.googleusercontent.c...&ct=clnk&gl=us

    In the long run, such operations were of limited success.2 While many Kurdish nationalists were jailed or killed, others simply went underground or found refuge abroad.22 The PKK, for instance, succeeded in regrouping in Syria.

    The PKK mentioned above is the Kurdish guerrilla force (and designated terrorist organization by the US and NATO). In essense, the Kurdish operations resembled a lot those of Palestinian guerrilla groups which used at some point neighbor countries to stage raids against Israel. This fact together with the fact that the Southern Eastern Turkey region had a majority of Kurdish population and villages meant that for the Turkish army it was always a challenge to establish a tight control in the region, and whenever it did it (often during periods of escalation) there was a price the Turkish army had to pay. Here is again the map of Turkey with the regions that have Kurds being the majority of the population

    Kurdish_settlements_in_the_majority_and_minority.png


    As it is obvious, the borders with Syria and Iraq have a majority of the population being quite hostile to the Turkish government and army. For these reasons, it does not surprise me to hear that in the beginning militants who were traveling to join ISIS in Syria or Iraq could use this loose control of the borders in this region.

    Still, it is clear that at some point Turkey realized that they had to step up their control in the southern region. It started because they were mostly concerned about the danger of having an independent Kurdish region near their vulnerable southeastern border. But of course, they could not say this! The official Turkish story was that they were entering Syria too fight ISIS. Nevertheless, it is clear that ISIS never accepted the Turkish rhetoric and presence in the Syrian region and has repeatedly targeted Turkey on numerous times. The soldiers who were burned is just ONE example. Another one is the bombing in Instanbul

    https://webcache.googleusercontent.c...&ct=clnk&gl=us
    Turkey strikes more than 100 Isis targets in Syria after Istanbul nightclub attack



















    Last edited by pamak; 22 Aug 18, 03:21.

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  • ljadw
    replied
    And about AQI (that no longer exist ) and ISIS : there is no difference between them ,as both want to destroy the West .Those who say that there is a difference between them are saying that ISIS is worse than AQI, thus that AQI are good guys . This is only the usual tactic of the Muslim terrorist lobby .
    There is only one good AQI member : a dead one . It is the same for ISIS .
    Turkey and Iran are managing ISIS, and Iran is managing the Taliban .

    Leave a comment:


  • ljadw
    replied
    That Assad used poison gas in his war against the enemies of the West, is not a reason for the West to intervene in this war on the side of its enemies .
    What Assad is doing in HIS country is not the business of foreigners .
    US liberals used CW in Vietnam,but no one used this as a pretext to help the VC.
    About Turkey : there are countless proofs that Turkey helped ISIS directly and indirectly: by its invasion of Iraq and Syria, by selling weapons to ISIS ,by giving ISIS convoys the authorization to pass through Turkey . Or maybe you think that these convoys came from Mars ?
    The supplies for ISIS passed through Turkey and Kurdistan,who are the neighbours of Syria.

    On August 25 2015 ,the Turkish newspaper Bugün published the story of the transfer of weapons and explosives from Turkey to ISIS,through the border post of Akcakale under the observation of Turkish border guards. The Turkish dictator Erdogan closed the newspaper .

    In april 2018, the liberal Foreign Policy said that in 2013 alone 30000 ISIS members traversed Turkey .
    Both ISIS and Turkey have a common enemy : the Kurds, thus why should they fight against each other ?

    Leave a comment:


  • pamak
    replied
    Gassing civilians!

    Twice!

    I guess this is not a good reason for you... At least not as good as the reasons Iran provides to bomb it

    Also, there is a difference between AQ and ISIS.

    https://www.brookings.edu/testimonie...erent-targets/

    TESTIMONY Comparing Al Qaeda and ISIS: Different goals, different targets


    Prepared testimony before the Subcommittee on Counterterrorism and Intelligence of the House Committee on Homeland Security.


    Now, what about Turkey? Are you willing to reexamine your claim after I informed you about the video?

    Yes, Turkey is bad! It challenges Greece in the Aegean too! I actually have more reasons to be against Turkey than you! You are a civilian somewhere in Belgium and the only Tursish threat you see is that of your Muslim Turikish neighbor. I was in an army and in a country which were trying to prepare for the actual possibility of fighting against a nation which is 8 times our size and with equipment similar to ours.

    Still, the FACTS do not change: Turkey WAS fighting against ISIS! It did not have a choice because ISIS saw Turkey as an invader!
    Last edited by pamak; 21 Aug 18, 15:14.

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  • ljadw
    replied
    Originally posted by pamak View Post

    Wow! A politician who opposes removal of Bashar al-Assad said that? She is a terrorist!

    Now give the actual quote because I see nothing to show that Obama or the CIA supported AQ in Syria. Also, I thought AQ was in Afghanistan and ISIS was in Syria!
    Give me one reason for the removal of Assad : one valid reason .
    There is no difference between AQI and ISIS .

    Leave a comment:


  • pamak
    replied
    Originally posted by ljadw View Post

    Irrelevant, unless you can prove that the murderers knew that the victims were Turkish military and that they killed them because they were Turkish military .
    They were wearing Turkish uniform and the message of the video was against the Turkish operations against ISIS.
    You are CLUELESS!

    See and hear the video! You can find it in internet...

    Leave a comment:


  • pamak
    replied
    Originally posted by ljadw View Post
    Real Clair Politics :July 25 2017 :Tulsi Gabbard (D Hawaii) said that Trump just ended Obama era CIA program which ''directly '' funded and armed AQI in Syria .
    And Gabbard is not a member of the Tea Party but of the Democrats .

    And, let's not forget Obama's intervention in Lybia (cost : only $ 1 billion for the taxpayer boasted BHO)against Gadaffi that was b enefiting ISIS . And BHO knew that it was benefiting ISIS .
    Wow! A politician who opposes removal of Bashar al-Assad said that? She is a terrorist!

    Now give the actual quote because I see nothing to show that Obama or the CIA supported AQ in Syria. Also, I thought AQ was in Afghanistan and ISIS was in Syria!

    Leave a comment:


  • ljadw
    replied
    Originally posted by pamak View Post

    okay, we are all terrorists!

    By the way, are you aware of the Turkish soldiers who were burned alive by ISIS?

    Of course not!

    I have seen the video but I guess it is rated so I will not post the link!



    Irrelevant, unless you can prove that the murderers knew that the victims were Turkish military and that they killed them because they were Turkish military .

    Leave a comment:


  • ljadw
    replied
    Real Clair Politics :July 25 2017 :Tulsi Gabbard (D Hawaii) said that Trump just ended Obama era CIA program which ''directly '' funded and armed AQI in Syria .
    And Gabbard is not a member of the Tea Party but of the Democrats .

    And, let's not forget Obama's intervention in Lybia (cost : only $ 1 billion for the taxpayer boasted BHO)against Gadaffi that was b enefiting ISIS . And BHO knew that it was benefiting ISIS .

    Leave a comment:


  • pamak
    replied
    Originally posted by ljadw View Post
    Those who fight against Assad support ISIS: Turkey
    Those who aid those who fight against Assad support ISIS.:Turkey, Obama, Hillary, McCain, the swamp, Macron, Sarkozy,...
    Those who deny that those who aid those who fight against Assad support ISIS, support themselves ISIS. People on this forum .
    In continuation of my previous post, let me tell you what the judges of the Nuremberg trial said about those who wage wars of aggression

    http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/09-30-46.asp

    The charges in the Indictment that the defendants planned and waged aggressive wars are charges of the utmost gravity. War is essentially an evil thing. Its consequences are not confined to the belligerent states alone, but affect the whole world.

    To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole.



    I suggest you do not try to distort the facts to justify any new war in the region because you are going to join the same list with those terrorists who commit their hideous war crimes you so much hate.

    Leave a comment:


  • pamak
    replied
    Originally posted by Nichols View Post

    Again....your comprehension problems.....from the link that you read:

    ERIC BOLLING, FOX NEWS: Julian Assange, who has Wikileaks, says there are some emails that pretty much tie Hillary Clinton to knowing about some weapons that may have been going through Libya to some of the ISIS fighters

    Take the Administration's shipment of arms out of Libya; ISIS would not have been able to grow out of their "JV" status.
    Again, you do not comprehend what you read!

    Even if it is true (and you have not provided evidence), it just shows that a politician wanted to cover an embarrassing fact!

    Try again

    Leave a comment:


  • Nichols
    replied
    Originally posted by pamak View Post

    I read it, and YOU STILL do not get that this does not say that the US supported ISIS!
    Again....your comprehension problems.....from the link that you read:

    ERIC BOLLING, FOX NEWS: Julian Assange, who has Wikileaks, says there are some emails that pretty much tie Hillary Clinton to knowing about some weapons that may have been going through Libya to some of the ISIS fighters

    Take the Administration's shipment of arms out of Libya; ISIS would not have been able to grow out of their "JV" status.

    Leave a comment:


  • pamak
    replied
    Originally posted by ljadw View Post
    Those who fight against Assad support ISIS: Turkey
    Those who aid those who fight against Assad support ISIS.:Turkey, Obama, Hillary, McCain, the swamp, Macron, Sarkozy,...
    Those who deny that those who aid those who fight against Assad support ISIS, support themselves ISIS. People on this forum .
    okay, we are all terrorists!

    By the way, are you aware of the Turkish soldiers who were burned alive by ISIS?

    Of course not!

    I have seen the video but I guess it is rated so I will not post the link!




    Leave a comment:


  • ljadw
    replied
    Those who fight against Assad support ISIS: Turkey
    Those who aid those who fight against Assad support ISIS.:Turkey, Obama, Hillary, McCain, the swamp, Macron, Sarkozy,...
    Those who deny that those who aid those who fight against Assad support ISIS, support themselves ISIS. People on this forum .

    Leave a comment:

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