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Double standards in how we cover Saudi Arabian and Iranian behavior and statements

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  • People will notice that Pamak continues his usual tactic , which is
    1 To move the goalposts by talking now about illegality of CW,which is not the subject of the discussion .
    2 By saying ,without proofs, that the use of CW was intentionally directed against children.
    3 Inventing excuses for Erdogan ,while I never condemned the Turkisk air attacks against Kurds .

    The FACT is that Pamak and Massena condemn what Assad is doing, but invent excuses for what Erdogan is doing, which is the same as what Assad is doing = air attacks against military targets where are living civilians, and such air attacks will always cause civilian casualties .
    BTW the international coalition did the same in Lybia and in Raqqa .

    And for Massena : your whining that Assad killed his own people is liberal nonsense and indicates a total lack on military and historical knowledge :there is a civil war in Syria AND in Turkey where both parties are killing their own people .
    Franco killed also a lot of his own people, but no one said that this was disqualifying him as head of state , even the SU had diplomatic relations with Franco and Ike visited Spain .
    The fact that Massena and Pamak attack Assad who fights against the enemies of their country ,but refuse to attack Erdogan who is not fighting against the enemies of their country, indicates that Pamak and Massena have a lot of sympathies for the enemies of their country .

    Comment


    • Originally posted by ljadw View Post
      People will notice that Pamak continues his usual tactic , which is
      1 To move the goalposts by talking now about illegality of CW,which is not the subject of the discussion .
      2 By saying ,without proofs, that the use of CW was intentionally directed against children.
      3 Inventing excuses for Erdogan ,while I never condemned the Turkisk air attacks against Kurds .

      The FACT is that Pamak and Massena condemn what Assad is doing, but invent excuses for what Erdogan is doing, which is the same as what Assad is doing = air attacks against military targets where are living civilians, and such air attacks will always cause civilian casualties .
      BTW the international coalition did the same in Lybia and in Raqqa .

      And for Massena : your whining that Assad killed his own people is liberal nonsense and indicates a total lack on military and historical knowledge :there is a civil war in Syria AND in Turkey where both parties are killing their own people .
      Franco killed also a lot of his own people, but no one said that this was disqualifying him as head of state , even the SU had diplomatic relations with Franco and Ike visited Spain .
      The fact that Massena and Pamak attack Assad who fights against the enemies of their country ,but refuse to attack Erdogan who is not fighting against the enemies of their country, indicates that Pamak and Massena have a lot of sympathies for the enemies of their country .
      Nope!

      You distort my position:

      I am not the one who tries to find excuses for a nation that commits illegal acts, violates international law and rights in occupied territories or repress freedom or support terrorism, and I do not care if the nation is called Iran or Turkey or Kurdistan or Israel. I never said that I do not condemn Erdogan or the Turks for their state sponsored terrorism against the Kurds. I also never said that I do not condemn the Kurds for their terrorist actions against Turkish civilians. I also never said that I do not condemn the Iranians for many of their actions against their own citizens or for their state sponsored terrorism against Israel.I consistently condemn offender of every side, including the offenders mentioned above and I do not try to hide their actions or justify breaches of the international law using excuses.

      What I do say is that the Iranians (because this is how the conversation in this thread started) have not committed any action that separates them from the cesspool of the region to justify some special response from our part. And I reject your claims about their supposedly aggression and supposedly Iranian invasion and occupation of Kurdistan in Iraq (which was never meant to be independent ) when Iran has actually the permission of the Iraqi government to be in Iraq, and when I see wayyy more clear cases of illegal Israeli invasions and occupation in West Bank despite the lack of local or international permission for such presence there.

      So, I say that If we can choose to live with Turkey as our ally, we can certainly live with NOT starting bombing Iran as you sooo eagerly want. I also want to clarify something else: The fact that I attacked Assad does not mean that I propose an invasion in Syria. I was never into new adventures in the region. Still, I see the ACTUAL use of WMD against civilians as sufficient reason to trigger a limited response. This is much more reasonable compared to your basic position which is that we should bomb the heck out of Iran because we should ASSUME that it has violated the nuclear agreements and will produce WMD in the future that it MAY use against a nuclear-armed Israel.

      I aslo hate distortion of facts: So, if you say that Assad used CW against ISIS, I will produce the map to show that he did not use it in ISIS controlled territory. And if you say (as you DID) that "Non intentional attacks of civilians are legal ,otherwise war would be impossible"

      https://forums.armchairgeneral.com/f...75#post5057075

      then , of COURSE, I will point that the use of the chemical weapons is ILLEGAL under ANY circumstances. and against ANYBODY. And if you say that Iran or Turkey helped ISIS, I will question the rumors and allegations provided by your sources and provide instead the actual facts we know that happened on the ground. And such facts include the Iranian and Turkish attacks against ISIS targets and the actual execution of Turkish soldiers captured by ISIS. In short, I will not help you invent lies and excuses to justify a new war in the region against a new country. If you want to spend money and fight the war of Israel or Kurdistan, feel free to do it. It is just that you cannot convince me that I have to fight or more accurately pay for it.
      Last edited by pamak; 23 Aug 18, 05:52.
      My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

      Comment


      • Douma was occupied by ISIS/ allies of ISIS ,=by the Jayshal al-Islam with 10000/15000 men in the region . : a week after the attack with CW only the SDF entered the city and the terrorists werre evacuated to the north of Syria where the Turkish occupation army was welcoming them .
        Other terrorist groups in the Ghouta region are

        Faylaq al-Rahman
        Hayat Tahrir al-Sham
        Harakat Nour al-Dia al-Zenki
        Harakat Ahrar al-Sham al-Islamiyya .

        The fact that the terrorists who occupied the city of Douma were evacuated to the north of Syria,occupied by Turkey,proves the connection between Turkey and the terrorists .

        But, continue to excuse Turkey and Iran and deny excuses for Syria . You only indicates on which side you are .

        Comment


        • Originally posted by ljadw View Post
          Douma was occupied by ISIS/ allies of ISIS ,=by the Jayshal al-Islam with 10000/15000 men in the region . : a week after the attack with CW only the SDF entered the city and the terrorists werre evacuated to the north of Syria where the Turkish occupation army was welcoming them .
          Other terrorist groups in the Ghouta region are

          Faylaq al-Rahman
          Hayat Tahrir al-Sham
          Harakat Nour al-Dia al-Zenki
          Harakat Ahrar al-Sham al-Islamiyya .

          The fact that the terrorists who occupied the city of Douma were evacuated to the north of Syria,occupied by Turkey,proves the connection between Turkey and the terrorists .

          But, continue to excuse Turkey and Iran and deny excuses for Syria . You only indicates on which side you are .
          BS!

          You do not give any source

          I gave the map, and the city was controlled by rebells while the ISIS controlled areas were clearly away from Douma



          20180414_wom983_0.png




          Also, the fact that there were report by medical personnel and humanitarian workers there shows that it was not controlled by ISIS

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douma_chemical_attack

          The chemical attack in Douma reportedly happened on 7 April 2018. The Union of Medical Care and Relief Organizations, a humanitarian organization that supervises medical services in the region, attributed seventy deaths to the attack. On-site medics reported smelling a chlorine-like odour, but that symptoms and death toll pointed to something more noxious such as sarin nerve agent caused the deaths.[7] A video from the scene showed dead men, women, and children with foam at their mouths.[31]

          Also, you do not give a source about any evacuation of any terrorist towards the Turkish area. Did you read Kurdish sources again? Not to mention that a simple look at the map shows that Douma is not near the Turkish controlled area!

          You will not distort facts to support your bigotry against Iran or Muslims. At least you will not do it unchallenged!
          Last edited by pamak; 23 Aug 18, 08:56.
          My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

          Comment


          • The results show that no organophosphorous nerve agents or their degradation products were detected in the environmental samples or in the plasma samples taken from alleged casualties. Along with explosive residues, various chlorinated organic chemicals were found in samples from two sites, for which there is full chain of custody.[
            There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

            Comment


            • Do not be shy... give us the link.

              My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

              Comment


              • Didn't you read the wiki article ? I took the quote from it.
                There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

                Comment


                • Originally posted by pamak View Post

                  If you think that you read the fact that the US government and Clinton supported ISIS during Obama's presidency
                  They shipped arms to Syria which ended up going to ISIS, that is supporting ISIS. The real kick to this is that the Administration already learned that lesson via Fast & Furious.



                  "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                    Didn't you read the wiki article ? I took the quote from it.
                    I want to see you make a clear statement of what source you use because multiple sources may use the same report but at different context. And since you are from Russia, we have to be very clear regarding what sources everybody uses and which source you accept as credible enough that you can use in your posts



                    Now, if you used wiki, then you should know that the quote came from the following link

                    https://www.opcw.org/news/article/op...arrab-in-2016/

                    OPCW designated labs conducted analysis of prioritised samples. The results show that no organophosphorous nerve agents or their degradation products were detected in the environmental samples or in the plasma samples taken from alleged casualties. Along with explosive residues, various chlorinated organic chemicals were found in samples from two sites, for which there is full chain of custody. Work by the team to establish the significance of these results is on-going. The FFM team will continue its work to draw final conclusions.


                    The above is the full quote, and does not give a final verdict

                    Now let's see one FINAL conclusion from the same agency


                    https://www.opcw.org/news/article/op...25-march-2017/

                    THE HAGUE, Netherlands —13 June 2018—The Fact-Finding Mission (FFM) of the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), confirmed in a report released today that sarin was very likely used as a chemical weapon in the south of Ltamenah, Syrian Arab Republic, on 24 March 2017. The FFM also concluded that chlorine was very likely used as a chemical weapon at Ltamenah Hospital and the surrounding area on 25 March 2017.

                    Do we agree that the same agency confirmed the presence of chemical attacks here?
                    My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Nichols View Post

                      They shipped arms to Syria which ended up going to ISIS, that is supporting ISIS. The real kick to this is that the Administration already learned that lesson via Fast & Furious.


                      It is also highly suspected that the Obama administration provided training to ISIS as well.
                      My worst jump story:
                      My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                      As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                      No lie.

                      ~
                      "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                      -2 Commando Jumpmaster

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Nichols View Post

                        They shipped arms to Syria which ended up going to ISIS, that is supporting ISIS. The real kick to this is that the Administration already learned that lesson via Fast & Furious.


                        And what is your point? If ISIS defeats a Kurdish unit equipped with US equipment would not it gather such US weapons? You act like you do not know that the winner in battle can get such "benefits"...and you are a military person!
                        My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by pamak View Post

                          Do we agree that the same agency confirmed the presence of chemical attacks here?
                          I used the quote about the "attack" which occured in April of this year. You posted about previous events. Furhtermore, it doesn't indicate who was behind those attacks.
                          There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Emtos View Post

                            I used the quote about the "attack" which occured in April of this year. You posted about previous events. Furhtermore, it doesn't indicate who was behind those attacks.
                            Well, previous events do not count in Russia? Also, we have to be clear if your position is that we do not have chemical attacks or if your position is that we do have chemical attacks but we do not know the origin. For the latter, we can discuss it to see which side has airplanes to deliver airborne attacks. We also have to see the victims. I mean if the victims include ones loyal to Assad, then I can understand the point that we do not know the origin of the chemical attacks, but I have not seen such evidence. Nor have I seen ISIS intimidating in videos his enemies by using its CW capabilities or accomplishments.
                            My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by pamak View Post

                              And what is your point? If ISIS defeats a Kurdish unit equipped with US equipment would not it gather such US weapons?
                              Wow, you are taking it to a whole new level. Are you saying that ISIS could/might defeat a unit supplied with US equipment so it is okay that the Administration armed them? With your logic, the US should give equipment to all terrorist.....

                              Here's a hint for you, if they weren't armed by the US, they wouldn't have been able to engage other units.
                              "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Nichols View Post

                                Wow, you are taking it to a whole new level. Are you saying that ISIS could/might defeat a unit supplied with US equipment so it is okay that the Administration armed them? With your logic, the US should give equipment to all terrorist.....

                                Here's a hint for you, if they weren't armed by the US, they wouldn't have been able to engage other units.
                                You do not make sense:

                                I am saying that ISIS DID DEFEAT US allies in the field and it is reasonable to expect that some of the US equipment used by the defeated units ended up in ISIS' hand. Are you seriously having difficulty to understand this scenario?
                                My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                                Comment

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