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  • Originally posted by ljadw View Post

    Irrational ? thats a good one coming from the man whose key argument is that that what has failed in Europe should be adopted in the USA.
    That is coming from a person who is clueless about the healthcare premiums in the US and has not received any treatment tin the US to make any comparison. Seriously, you did not even know wayyy more simple things, like the price of a cheap gun in the American market. You cannot make arguments about the US society when you lack basic understanding about how things are here...
    My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

    Comment


    • [QUOTE=TactiKill J.;n5052822]The NRA is a sham and complete fraud, they shouldn't be popular given their poor history in defending our gun rights. Gun Owners of America is the only lobby interested in upholding the 2ndA at all costs and for all Americans. The NRA on the other hand can go to hell.[
      what are you smoking ? i f it was not for the N.R.A. you would not own any firearms today from a life member

      Comment


      • Originally posted by pamak View Post

        That is coming from a person who is clueless about the healthcare premiums in the US and has not received any treatment tin the US to make any comparison. Seriously, you did not even know wayyy more simple things, like the price of a cheap gun in the American market. You cannot make arguments about the US society when you lack basic understanding about how things are here...
        Clueless like you. Obamacare is like the Titanic. It's sinking slowly but surely. It's close to it's death plunge now. This open season starts in about a month. There are few major insurers left in the program. The ones that are still in are the equivalent of The General or Titan auto insurance. That is, they are companies that take marginal, high risk, people at substantial rates above the "good" insurers and give lousy service in return.
        Their provider networks are small and those in them are often the least qualified doctors and health care providers. Some use HMO's extensively where you get military-like service that takes hours to get seen, the service when seen is perfunctory, and you aren't given any extras. That is, you get to go to the equivalent of the "free clinic."

        Aetna, Humana, Anthem (Blue Cross), and the like have either totally or mostly pulled out of the Obamacare market. With the "tax" penalty gone, many people won't sign up when the subsidy rate to be paid is substantial. So, it's likely that more young, healthy people will walk rather than buy.

        All the remaining insurers want substantial rate hikes, well above inflation. Then there's the 20 states suing to have Obamacare overturned and thrown out entirely as the mandate is now gone. That goes to the Supreme Court it's likely to be upheld.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

          Clueless like you. Obamacare is like the Titanic. It's sinking slowly but surely. It's close to it's death plunge now. This open season starts in about a month. There are few major insurers left in the program. The ones that are still in are the equivalent of The General or Titan auto insurance. That is, they are companies that take marginal, high risk, people at substantial rates above the "good" insurers and give lousy service in return.
          Their provider networks are small and those in them are often the least qualified doctors and health care providers. Some use HMO's extensively where you get military-like service that takes hours to get seen, the service when seen is perfunctory, and you aren't given any extras. That is, you get to go to the equivalent of the "free clinic."

          Aetna, Humana, Anthem (Blue Cross), and the like have either totally or mostly pulled out of the Obamacare market. With the "tax" penalty gone, many people won't sign up when the subsidy rate to be paid is substantial. So, it's likely that more young, healthy people will walk rather than buy.

          All the remaining insurers want substantial rate hikes, well above inflation. Then there's the 20 states suing to have Obamacare overturned and thrown out entirely as the mandate is now gone. That goes to the Supreme Court it's likely to be upheld.
          The US healthcare was sinking slowly but surely even before Obama. If you want to talk about healthcare inflation then accept the reality that this has always been a problem and did not become worse after Obamacare. You are also part of the crowd who cannot make comparisons between the US healthcare and the EU system which you criticize based on misinformation and rumors you hear in sites which consistently lead you to support misinformation. In fact because of your federally subsidized insurance, you are not even aware of the real situation of prices in healthcare in the US



          https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterub.../#78d2c821de01

          Apr 20, 2018, 11:21am


          The U.S. Healthcare System Is Back To Its High-Spending Ways



          For a few years, U.S. healthcare spending seemed to be under control, rising no faster than the economy as a whole. The proportion of our GDP spent on healthcare was flatter than a Nebraska cornfield in November. Here’s how much we spent on healthcare, relative to the economy as a whole, between 2009 and 2013:
          • 2009: 17.3% of GDP
          • 2011: 17.3% of GDP
          • 2013: 17.2% of GDP

          That’s a historically low rate of healthcare inflation. But much of that flattening resulted from the great recession that started in 2008. And now, it looks like healthcare spending is once again on the rise, already equaling 17.8% of GDP.


          http://fortune.com/2018/02/15/healthcare-prices/

          By BLOOMBERG
          February 15, 2018

          The growth in U.S. health-care prices is projected to outpace economy-wide inflation for the first time since 2010, the second report in a week to signal the end of a long stretch of restrained medical increases.



          https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2007/jul/wk5/art05.htm
          Medical care inflation in 2006


          AUGUST 03, 2007

          The medical care price index increased 3.6 percent last year, the smallest increase since 1998. The index had risen 4.3 percent in 2005.


          Annual change in the Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers, medical care, 1997-2006
          Percent increase
          1997....... 2.8
          1998....... 3.4
          1999....... 3.7
          2000....... 4.2
          2001....... 4.7
          2002....... 5.0
          2003,,,,,,, 3.7
          2004....... 4.2
          2005....... 4.3
          2006....... 3.6
          .

          Last edited by pamak; 09 Sep 18, 22:21.
          My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

          Comment


          • Originally posted by pamak View Post

            The US healthcare was sinking slowly but surely even before Obama. If you want to talk about healthcare inflation then accept the reality that this has always been a problem and did not become worse after Obamacare. You are also part of the crowd who cannot make comparisons between the US healthcare and the EU system which you criticize based on misinformation and rumors you hear in sites which consistently lead you to support misinformation. In fact because of your federally subsidized insurance, you are not even aware of the real situation of prices in healthcare in the US



            https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterub.../#78d2c821de01

            Apr 20, 2018, 11:21am


            The U.S. Healthcare System Is Back To Its High-Spending Ways



            For a few years, U.S. healthcare spending seemed to be under control, rising no faster than the economy as a whole. The proportion of our GDP spent on healthcare was flatter than a Nebraska cornfield in November. Here’s how much we spent on healthcare, relative to the economy as a whole, between 2009 and 2013:
            • 2009: 17.3% of GDP
            • 2011: 17.3% of GDP
            • 2013: 17.2% of GDP

            That’s a historically low rate of healthcare inflation. But much of that flattening resulted from the great recession that started in 2008. And now, it looks like healthcare spending is once again on the rise, already equaling 17.8% of GDP.


            http://fortune.com/2018/02/15/healthcare-prices/

            By BLOOMBERG
            February 15, 2018

            The growth in U.S. health-care prices is projected to outpace economy-wide inflation for the first time since 2010, the second report in a week to signal the end of a long stretch of restrained medical increases.



            https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2007/jul/wk5/art05.htm
            Medical care inflation in 2006


            AUGUST 03, 2007

            The medical care price index increased 3.6 percent last year, the smallest increase since 1998. The index had risen 4.3 percent in 2005.


            Annual change in the Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers, medical care, 1997-2006
            Percent increase
            1997....... 2.8
            1998....... 3.4
            1999....... 3.7
            2000....... 4.2
            2001....... 4.7
            2002....... 5.0
            2003,,,,,,, 3.7
            2004....... 4.2
            2005....... 4.3
            2006....... 3.6
            .
            What has any of that got to do with Obamacare? Obamacare is not part of the health care system. It is part of the health insurance system. You are making a fallacy of composition.

            Rate increases for Obamacare are anywhere from about 15% to 50% depending on the state.

            California: 16 to 30%

            http://www.latimes.com/business/hilt...19-story.html#

            Virginia 40 to 64% depending on insurer

            http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare...hikes-for-2019

            Ohio: Average of 20%

            https://www.cleveland.com/open/index..._obamacar.html

            Other states: 20 to 30%

            https://www.abc15.com/news/national/...o-soar-in-2019

            So, while it is likely anyone wanting an Obamacare policy can get one, they're going to have to buy from a second or third tier insurer, and the cost of that policy will be higher even if it's subsidized. That's because the subsidy rate is a percentage of the total policy cost.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

              What has any of that got to do with Obamacare? Obamacare is not part of the health care system. It is part of the health insurance system. You are making a fallacy of composition.

              Rate increases for Obamacare are anywhere from about 15% to 50% depending on the state.

              California: 16 to 30%

              http://www.latimes.com/business/hilt...19-story.html#

              Virginia 40 to 64% depending on insurer

              http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare...hikes-for-2019

              Ohio: Average of 20%

              https://www.cleveland.com/open/index..._obamacar.html

              Other states: 20 to 30%

              https://www.abc15.com/news/national/...o-soar-in-2019

              So, while it is likely anyone wanting an Obamacare policy can get one, they're going to have to buy from a second or third tier insurer, and the cost of that policy will be higher even if it's subsidized. That's because the subsidy rate is a percentage of the total policy cost.
              BS!

              You are talking about 2019!

              Well, what did Obama tell you about the mandate? Did you think that you can get away with it without cost?

              From your links

              The requirement that everyone carry health insurance or pay a penalty — it's up to $695 a month for uncovered adults this year or 2.5% of household income, whichever is higher — has played an important role in persuading younger and healthier individuals to sign up.

              But the penalty was cut to zero in the tax bill passed by the Republican-controlled Congress, a deliberate effort to undermine the ACA


              You wanted tax cuts! Now, do not whine if the less participation will push cost higher for everybody who chooses to have insurance.

              http://www.latimes.com/business/hilt...ap-story.html#


              F7Z2YJLAFVHG5HXK3L3FK4XFDY.jpg
              My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

              Comment


              • Originally posted by pamak View Post

                BS!

                You are talking about 2019!

                Well, what did Obama tell you about the mandate? Did you think that you can get away with it without cost?

                From your links

                The requirement that everyone carry health insurance or pay a penalty — it's up to $695 a month for uncovered adults this year or 2.5% of household income, whichever is higher — has played an important role in persuading younger and healthier individuals to sign up.

                But the penalty was cut to zero in the tax bill passed by the Republican-controlled Congress, a deliberate effort to undermine the ACA


                You wanted tax cuts! Now, do not whine if the less participation will push cost higher for everybody who chooses to have insurance.

                http://www.latimes.com/business/hilt...ap-story.html#


                F7Z2YJLAFVHG5HXK3L3FK4XFDY.jpg
                The 2019 open season begins in about a month. That's what people will pay for insurance for 2019. The rates are set ahead of time because the insurers have to get the government okay on rate increases. You, once again, are showing your ignorance of how Obamacare works.

                What did Obama tell us about the mandate?



                Now there is a whopper of a massive lie that kicked the average American right in the teeth.

                The tax mandate is gone in 2019

                http://time.com/money/5067044/gop-ta...ate-Obamacare/

                http://fortune.com/2017/12/20/tax-bi...ate-Obamacare/

                I don't participate in Obamacare. I get insurance through an employer program or via the US military (Tricare). I can choose between the two. So, I really have on dog in the fight over Obamacare. But, people who are forced into the Obamacare market are getting @$$ raped by the rising costs, lousy plans, and poor service. They have been from day one. The sooner it's gone, the better.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

                  The 2019 open season begins in about a month. That's what people will pay for insurance for 2019. The rates are set ahead of time because the insurers have to get the government okay on rate increases. You, once again, are showing your ignorance of how Obamacare works.

                  What did Obama tell us about the mandate?



                  Now there is a whopper of a massive lie that kicked the average American right in the teeth.

                  The tax mandate is gone in 2019

                  http://time.com/money/5067044/gop-ta...ate-Obamacare/

                  http://fortune.com/2017/12/20/tax-bi...ate-Obamacare/

                  I don't participate in Obamacare. I get insurance through an employer program or via the US military (Tricare). I can choose between the two. So, I really have on dog in the fight over Obamacare. But, people who are forced into the Obamacare market are getting @$$ raped by the rising costs, lousy plans, and poor service. They have been from day one. The sooner it's gone, the better.
                  I know that you do not participate in Obamacare which is the reason why you do not understand that Obamacare actually helps many of the insured people at the lower end who also get some form of subsidies to cover a significant part of their expenses! But you DO have a dog in the fight because you are a fanatic ideologist! There is no other explanation for insisting so much on spreading BS for something that supposedly is not of much interest to you.


                  Also, what you do not understand is that insurers already anticipate the increased cost in their price and the reason is because the people who have CHOSEN to enroll in 2018 are LESS exactly because they know that by not having insurance in 2018, they will not pay a penalty in 2019! On top of this is the removal of direct federal funding for certain programs.


                  https://board.coveredca.com/meetings...es_1-18-18.pdf
                  • Issuers and states faced considerable challenges in 2018 due to federal policy changes and uncertainty, including reduced carrier participation and the need to make premium work-arounds to address the removal of direct federal funding for the cost-sharing reduction (“CSR”) program. For those receiving subsidies, their premium cost fell on average 3 percent in federally facilitated marketplace (FFM) states, while on average the premium for the lowest-cost Silver plan for those who did not receive subsidies increased 32 percent.
                  • Reductions to marketing and outreach for the federally facilitated marketplace began in the final week of open enrollment 2017 and have continued into the 2018 open-enrollment period. Total enrollment in the federally facilitated marketplace in 2018 closed with 8.7 million, down 9 percent from the 2016 level. To the extent a risk pool is shrinking, it is very likely to be getting “less healthy” and more expensive for all those insured, especially for the 6 million unsubsidized individuals who do not receive the Advanced Premium Tax Credit to offset the premium increases.



                  https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10....4.186647/full/

                  Nationally, on-exchange enrollment dropped just 4 percent as of the end of open enrollment in 2018 despite a variety of disruptions, including: a shortened enrollment period, radically reduced federal spending on marketing and enrollment assistance, repeal bills that made news from March through September, confusion sown by Trump’s periodic declarations that the ACA was dead, and pending repeal of the individual mandate penalty (not effective until 2019 but very much in the news before and during open enrollment).
                  Last edited by pamak; 10 Sep 18, 02:14.
                  My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                  Comment


                  • I am so glad for the Ignore feature...
                    Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                    Comment


                    • And just to recall the past because you tried to argue that premium increases are different from the overall increase of healthcare costs (true, but the second is the main driven force for the former)

                      See premiums increases for EMPLOYER SPONSORED INSURANCE (which offers cheaper insurance compared to that in individual markets) before Obamacare

                      http://www.nber.org/aginghealth/spring05/w11160.html

                      The Effect of Rising Health Insurance Premiums on Employment


                      Employer health insurance premiums have risen sharply in recent years - between 2000 and 2005, premiums rose by over fifty percent in real terms, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation.


                      https://kaiserfamilyfoundation.files...3/04/76723.pdf

                      page 19



                      Average Percentage increase in health insurance Premiums compared to other indicators, (thick green line) The other lighter green lines are overall inflation and wage increases

                      Screen Shot 2018-09-09 at 11.21.47 PM.png
                      Last edited by pamak; 10 Sep 18, 01:56.
                      My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                        I am so glad for the Ignore feature...
                        https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ignorance_is_bliss



                        ignorance is bliss
                        1. Lack of knowledge results in happiness; it is more comfortable not to know certain things.
                        Last edited by pamak; 10 Sep 18, 01:53.
                        My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                          I am so glad for the Ignore feature...
                          How did the subject of the NRA being unpopular now days, which it isn't, turn into a trolling debate on who are gun owners, then, on the outrageous mandated health insurance rate increases caused by Obamacare?
                          “Breaking News,”

                          “Something irrelevant in your life just happened and now we are going to blow it all out of proportion for days to keep you distracted from what's really going on.”

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by SRV Ron View Post

                            How did the subject of the NRA being unpopular now days, which it isn't, turn into a trolling debate on who are gun owners, then, on the outrageous mandated health insurance rate increases caused by Obamacare?
                            It's called 'topic drift'.

                            In this case the America-hating liberals get frantic over the loathed Bill of Rights any time anything remotely connected to our right to bear arms comes up.

                            How it went to BoboCare, I don't know. My Ignore list is finally firing on all cylinders and I am troll-free.
                            Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                            Comment

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