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  • Originally posted by BELGRAVE View Post

    News to me. Tell me more.

    No, I just described it as I saw it. I'm neither pro or anti-Trump, knowing nothing of his domestic performance.

    And actually Mr Putin is heartily disliked around here:- due to the loss of a certain airliner brought down by a Russian missile.
    YOU were praising Putin ,saying that he was one of the smartest and toughest operators in the business .
    I assume that you have a lot of contacts with the Cheka, otherwise I have to conclude that you are saying things without having proofs .Putin was a subordinate KGB agent with a subordinate position.

    Comment


    • Clearly, Trump's 'dealings' with Putin are not quite tough enough, no matter what Trump says.
      We are not now that strength which in old days
      Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
      Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
      To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Massena View Post
        Clearly, Trump's 'dealings' with Putin are not quite tough enough, no matter what Trump says.
        Would you suggest, not just interfering with their elections, (as clearly that didnt work) but the complete overthrow perhaps....?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Darth Holliday View Post

          Would you suggest, not just interfering with their elections, (as clearly that didnt work) but the complete overthrow perhaps....?
          I expect an American president to maintain a coherent foreign policy, deal with our adversaries as if they actually are adversaries, be honest with the American people, and to support our allies, not our enemies. Trump has done none of these. That you and others can't or won't understand this just because Trump says that he is a Republican, is both abhorrent and against the best interests of the United States.
          We are not now that strength which in old days
          Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
          Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
          To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Massena View Post

            I expect an American president to maintain a coherent foreign policy, deal with our adversaries as if they actually are adversaries, be honest with the American people, and to support our allies, not our enemies. Trump has done none of these. That you and others can't or won't understand this just because Trump says that he is a Republican, is both abhorrent and against the best interests of the United States.
            What adversaries are you talking about ? What coherent policies ? You talk complete nonsense.
            There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Emtos View Post

              What adversaries are you talking about ? What coherent policies ? You talk complete nonsense.
              M means : a coherent foreign policy is the policy of BH Obama :spending a $ billion to help ISIS in Libya
              : adversaries of the US are those who disagree with M .
              : to be honest with the American people is to follow the orders of Deep State.
              :to support our allies ,is to support ISIS, Iran,...
              ur enemies : these are those who do business with Russia : Germany, Bill Clinton who received $ 500000 for a speech in Moscow, Stein who also was welcomed in Putin country,....
              I hope that these clarifications which Massena had forgotten will show people what he wants ,well ,most people know what he wants ,which is US ruled by a quadrumvirate :Brennan, Clapper, Hillary and Soros .

              Comment


              • Have you been on vacation? Did you go visiting Alice?

                We love him here!
                So much that we made a big balloon of him.

                Who is the second world power?

                I prefer camp fire over that Fishers Do you have a favorite?

                Oh, please get the ignore function working.
                "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                Comment


                • Nah I didn't go visiting Alice John, I've still been living in the real world.

                  Living in the same UK I've always lived in, bringing up my kids, earning my living, minding my own business and looking on with derision at the snowflake numpties who decided to float a pathetic baby balloon of the visiting US president. How cool was that?

                  How many people were protesting in London out of a population of over 60 million? Remind me! Oh yeah a few thousand of the great unwashed with Corbyn not missing an opportunity to spout his usual stuck in the 70s socialist drivel. How much difference did it make to any of us, to Trump, to the world? Oh let me think here for a second .....

                  .... NONE!

                  I think it's fairly obvious that China and the US are the major world economic and military powers but if you don't agree .. I don't care. Last time I looked the EU wasn't a nation, or a cohesive unit in any sense - no combined military, flag, federation (although that's what the bureaucrats want) and oh yes, one of their top three highest net contributors is on the way out and at least half a dozen of their member states are at complete odds with their diktats. The future is sure looking bright for Juncker & Co. Ask the Greeks about that or the Italians, or the Spanish, or the Portuguese .... and see how that's working out for them.

                  In the meantime do feel free to insult me, and my views .. because I honestly don't care about what you think and what you say. I could say a lot more, but I'd probably get moderated, whereas you seem able to be as insulting as you like towards anyone who doesn't agree with your expat, myopic view of the world, and get away with it on here.

                  Never quite understood that ...

                  "COOMMAAAAAAANNNNDOOOO!!!!!"
                  - Mad Jack Churchill.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Massena View Post

                    I expect an American president to maintain a coherent foreign policy, deal with our adversaries as if they actually are adversaries, be honest with the American people, and to support our allies, not our enemies. Trump has done none of these. That you and others can't or won't understand this just because Trump says that he is a Republican, is both abhorrent and against the best interests of the United States.
                    NO, you said he needs to get tougher.....Be specific....

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Tuck's Luck View Post
                      Nah I didn't go visiting Alice John, I've still been living in the real world.

                      Living in the same UK I've always lived in, bringing up my kids, earning my living, minding my own business and looking on with derision at the snowflake numpties who decided to float a pathetic baby balloon of the visiting US president. How cool was that?

                      How many people were protesting in London out of a population of over 60 million? Remind me! Oh yeah a few thousand of the great unwashed with Corbyn not missing an opportunity to spout his usual stuck in the 70s socialist drivel. How much difference did it make to any of us, to Trump, to the world? Oh let me think here for a second .....

                      .... NONE!



                      In the meantime do feel free to insult me, and my views .. because I honestly don't care about what you think and what you say. I could say a lot more, but I'd probably get moderated, whereas you seem able to be as insulting as you like towards anyone who doesn't agree with your expat, myopic view of the world, and get away with it on here.

                      Never quite understood that ...
                      Bold mine!

                      I focus on the bolded section, and I am not interested in exchanges personal insults...

                      You are right that the problems we see in those parts of the EU (mostly in southern Europe) should give a pause to everybody who uncritically accepts the EU policies. My issue though with your stance is that Trump's criticism is dishonest and frankly dangerous. And this is because his belief "in Make America Great Again" is belief to a system which actually is the reason for the situation we have now in which governments (including those in the EU) are way too much synchronized with the interests of an economic elite than with the people. This attitude was cultivated and promoted by that "Great America" which in the name of the competition (when it was winning of course) was ready to put economic interests over any other social concern, including public programs helping the common person, from public education to public healthcare. And in this competitive environment, the generally more socialist EU was often forced to become more "competitive" by copying big parts of this "Great American" recipe in which social concerns gradually became less important.


                      Yes, today we have a situation where many in Southern Europe face big problems and poverty without much hope . Part of it is because of stupid mistakes made by those Europeans who bear responsibility for not having a competitive economy, partly because of peculiar conditions in certain countries (Greece for decades had the burden of paying 4 and 5% of GDP to defend itself against a huge and hostile Turkey instead of using part of it to serve its debt) but also partly because the current system always puts the interests of banks and of the economic elite above everybody else, including above the young generations in the European South, who are the innocent victims who pay (and will continue to pay for decades) the highest cost in this ongoing crime despite the fact that they are at no fault for the current situation.


                      But of course, talking about the problems of the European South should also elicit some thoughts about the problems of the American poor South, where deprivation and poverty have been consistent even during the times when America was doing "Great." And one can see similar deprivation and poverty all around the US because the American model of thoughtless economic competition produces its own victims who live in ghettos or in the streets, or who need to have two full time low-paying jobs in order to cover basic expenses, like healthcare. Because in the American model, if for some reason people cannot succeed to be average or above average in competition, then they will struggle for even basic necessities. And this is not just true for the lazy or the people who do not want to work hard. it is true for every "non-competitive" worker, even if such person busts his rear to feed his family but his skills are below average.

                      So, now when an American businessman who has worshiped and served this type of economic system of extreme inequalities for years and who continues to worship it by giving big corporations big tax cuts and minimum regulations (again in the name of making them more competitive) whines about the competitive Germans with their stronger unions, higher taxes, and more regulations, and presents himself as the defender of the common people, he sounds like a big clown... As big as the balloon that flew over London when he came there...
                      Last edited by pamak; 20 Jul 18, 16:44.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by pamak View Post

                        Bold mine!

                        I focus on the bolded section, and I am not interested in exchanges personal insults...

                        You are right that the problems we see in those parts of the EU (mostly in southern Europe) should give a pause to everybody who uncritically accepts the EU policies. My issue though with your stance is that Trump's criticism is dishonest and frankly dangerous. And this is because his belief "in Make America Great Again" is belief to a system which actually is the reason for the situation we have now in which governments (including those in the EU) are way too much synchronized with the interests of an economic elite than with the people. This attitude was cultivated and promoted by that "Great America" which in the name of the competition (when it was winning of course) was ready to put economic interests over public programs helping the common person, from public education to public healthcare, and the more generally socialist EU was often forced to become more "competitive" by copying big parts of this "Great American" recipe. Yes, the Southern Europe pays a high cost . Part of it is because of stupid mistakes made by those Europeans who bear responsibility for not having a competitive economy, partly because of peculiar conditions in certain countries (Greece for decades had the burden of paying 4 and 5% of GDP for defense against Turkey instead of using part of it to serve its debt) but also partly because the system always puts the interests of banks above everybody else, including above those of innocent victims, such as the young generations in the European South, who pay (and will continue to pay for decades) the highest cost of the economic crisis despite the fact that they are at no fault for the current situation.


                        But of course, talking about the problems of the European South should also elicit some thoughts about the problems of the American poor South, where deprivation and poverty have been consistent even during the times when America was doing "Great." And one an see similar deprivation and poverty all around the US because the American model of thoughtless economic competition produces its own victims who live in ghettos or in the streets, or who need to have two full time low-paying jobs in order to cover basic expenses, like healthcare. Because in the American model, if for some reason people cannot succeed to be average or above average in competition, then they will struggle for even basic necessities. And this is not just true for the lazy or the people who do not want to work hard. it is true for every "non-competitive" worker, even if such person busts his rear to feed his family but his skills are below average. So, now when an American businessman who has worshiped and served this type of economic system for years and who continues to worship it by giving big corporations big tax cuts and minimum regulations (again in the name of making them more competitive) whines about the competitive Germans with their stronger unions, higher taxes, and more regulations, and presents himself as the defender of the common people, he sounds like a big clown. As ig as the balloon that flew over London when he came there...
                        I have literally read your post three times and I'm still none the wiser.




                        Two whacking great paragraphs and I have no idea what you are saying, where you are going, other than you end up calling Trump a 'clown', and referencing the London 'balloon' in your final sentence.

                        We've gone from Southern Europe to 'Make America Great Again' to the Deep South and all around the houses, and I still have no clue what point it is that you are trying to make?

                        I'll just reiterate here for you and anyone who is remotely interested, and I doubt many are. A few leftie numpties who commissioned a balloon of Trump that was only flown for about 20 minutes and couldn't be flown at any height due to air traffic control restrictions, DOES NOT REPRESENT THE VIEWS OF THE BRITISH PEOPLE. YOU KNOW THE 60 ODD MILLION OF US WHO LIVE ON THESE ISLANDS.

                        I doubt Trump is responsible for the problems of the American South, the European South, Russia, the world .. he's a businessman who stood for office, got elected and has been president of the USA for less than 2 years. so it really isn't logical, feasible, or sensible to lay the problems of the world at his door.

                        It seems to me he is doing his best for America and Americans, and I'm not quite what is so terribly wrong with that?






                        "COOMMAAAAAAANNNNDOOOO!!!!!"
                        - Mad Jack Churchill.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Tuck's Luck View Post

                          I have literally read your post three times and I'm still none the wiser.




                          Two whacking great paragraphs and I have no idea what you are saying, where you are going, other than you end up calling Trump a 'clown', and referencing the London 'balloon' in your final sentence.

                          We've gone from Southern Europe to 'Make America Great Again' to the Deep South and all around the houses, and I still have no clue what point it is that you are trying to make?

                          I'll just reiterate here for you and anyone who is remotely interested, and I doubt many are. A few leftie numpties who commissioned a balloon of Trump that was only flown for about 20 minutes and couldn't be flown at any height due to air traffic control restrictions, DOES NOT REPRESENT THE VIEWS OF THE BRITISH PEOPLE. YOU KNOW THE 60 ODD MILLION OF US WHO LIVE ON THESE ISLANDS.

                          I doubt Trump is responsible for the problems of the American South, the European South, Russia, the world .. he's a businessman who stood for office, got elected and has been president of the USA for less than 2 years. so it really isn't logical, feasible, or sensible to lay the problems of the world at his door.

                          It seems to me he is doing his best for America and Americans, and I'm not quite what is so terribly wrong with that?
                          Some people want to hate just to hate, because it's the "popular" thing to do. Very few here have any actual grievances against Trump, other than mockrage and jealousy over the fact that he won the election, and the other person did not. I wouldn't try to understand them, as they don't want to be understood, they have no desire to have done what's best for this country. All they want is to draw attention to their noise, and attack anyone that disagrees with them.

                          Trump is trying to do positive things for this country. Not everything he will end up doing will be great, but we're better off than the alternative. Plus, he's got 8+ years prior to his election of terrible things to undo that have harmed this country. And he may not fix all of it when his 8 years are up. But, until he does something that actually harms this country, and not the special feelings of those that hate him anyway, I'll give him a chance.
                          The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the Second only applies to muskets?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Tuck's Luck View Post

                            I have literally read your post three times and I'm still none the wiser.




                            Two whacking great paragraphs and I have no idea what you are saying, where you are going, other than you end up calling Trump a 'clown', and referencing the London 'balloon' in your final sentence.

                            We've gone from Southern Europe to 'Make America Great Again' to the Deep South and all around the houses, and I still have no clue what point it is that you are trying to make?

                            I'll just reiterate here for you and anyone who is remotely interested, and I doubt many are. A few leftie numpties who commissioned a balloon of Trump that was only flown for about 20 minutes and couldn't be flown at any height due to air traffic control restrictions, DOES NOT REPRESENT THE VIEWS OF THE BRITISH PEOPLE. YOU KNOW THE 60 ODD MILLION OF US WHO LIVE ON THESE ISLANDS.

                            I doubt Trump is responsible for the problems of the American South, the European South, Russia, the world .. he's a businessman who stood for office, got elected and has been president of the USA for less than 2 years. so it really isn't logical, feasible, or sensible to lay the problems of the world at his door.
                            It seems to me he is doing his best for America and Americans, and I'm not quite what is so terribly wrong with that?






                            Then take it in pieces...

                            Are you denying that the concept of "Make America Great Again" has full faith in competition regardless of social costs where there are clear big winners and big losers in the society?
                            If you agree with this, then is not it somewhat hypocritical to hear the believers of this concept to blame global international competition for the economic problems of their constituent and present themselves as the defenders of the poor guy?

                            Also, are you denying that the German economy has more regulations, higher taxes, higher minimum wages, mandatory contributions to health coverage by all employers and stronger unions, which according to Trump supporters' logic kill competition? If you agree, does not it sound like whining to go after Germans just because they are doing better than the US in trade instead of self-reflecting to see the American mistakes which brought this situation?

                            And yes, I do understand that the balloon does not represent the whole British. Right now, I think the British are eager to find new economic partners. I just expressed MY views why I think he is as a big clown as the balloon that flew over London.
                            Last edited by pamak; 20 Jul 18, 17:13.

                            Comment


                            • Well done for expressing YOUR views.

                              Apart from that, your first paragraph is incomprehensible and the 2nd paragraph wanders off into the realms of tangential fantasy.

                              The third para actually comes back down to earth with the balloon / clown / London references .. but your claim about what the British are 'eager'' for shows an unbelievable arrogance. The 'British' aren't some mindless collective who all think the same, behave the same and have the same political beliefs. You have absolutely no idea whatsoever what the 'British' want.

                              You think Trump's a clown, I don't, You think this, I think that. I think the EU is a crock of shite, you don't. So what?

                              You express YOUR views, I express MY views, other people on this thread express THEIR views, and meanwhile Trump remains the democratically elected president of the USA.



                              "COOMMAAAAAAANNNNDOOOO!!!!!"
                              - Mad Jack Churchill.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Tuck's Luck View Post
                                Well done for expressing YOUR views.

                                Apart from that, your first paragraph is incomprehensible and the 2nd paragraph wanders off into the realms of tangential fantasy.

                                The third para actually comes back down to earth with the balloon / clown / London references .. but your claim about what the British are 'eager'' for shows an unbelievable arrogance. The 'British' aren't some mindless collective who all think the same, behave the same and have the same political beliefs. You have absolutely no idea whatsoever what the 'British' want.

                                You think Trump's a clown, I don't, You think this, I think that. I think the EU is a crock of shite, you don't. So what?

                                You express YOUR views, I express MY views, other people on this thread express THEIR views, and meanwhile Trump remains the democratically elected president of the USA.


                                Ohh I see,

                                now you start the game of making personal comments calling me arrogant while you still have not addressed any of the points I clarified after you said that you could not understand the original post. I assume the second post was short enough that you could understand it, correct?

                                Look, if you came here just to express your views without a desire to talk about them with somebody who may disagree with you, I am fine with it. But of course, in this case, why do you make comments about the things I post and you do not understand when apparently you do not have any desire to talk about them?

                                ps: I assume your comments about the "deluded Americans" were a fine example of modesty!
                                Last edited by pamak; 20 Jul 18, 17:36.

                                Comment

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