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  • #31
    Originally posted by Massena View Post

    It doesn't matter. What matters is that the French came in and without them the US would not have won.
    Not only that but things would not have developed as it has. Still 13 colonies on the Eastern Sea Broad. No Sea to Shinning Sea. No SW and no trans Mississippi or Louisiana Purchase. Alaska and Hawaii belongs to someone else. Without France's early help then out "Manifest Destiny" is just so much wishful thinking.
    "Ask not what your country can do for you"

    Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

    you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Tuebor View Post

      For the French it was a way to needle the Brits, but they went too far. Should have just kept supplying the U.S., and not gotten involved directly.
      For the Spanish it was for Florida, and no "altruism" existed; they were never an actual ally to the U.S., but merely a co-belligerent.
      For the Dutch, it was for the Guilders. There was profit to be made as the middleman (most of European aid came via Dutch colonies in the Caribbean). Interestingly enough, the British waited until 1782 to actually declare war against the Dutch. Very much an anguished cry in vain.

      Tuebor
      So in you opinion the French went to far. Interesting. Without the French
      engagement how would we have won Yorktown? The French had as many troops in Yorktown as did Washington.
      "Ask not what your country can do for you"

      Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

      you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post

        So in you opinion the French went to far. Interesting. Without the French
        engagement how would we have won Yorktown? The French had as many troops in Yorktown as did Washington.
        I suspect we would not have had a "Yorktown." The only reason we were there in the first place was because of the long sad story of events that took place prior, and it really all started with D'Estaing's bungling at Savannah. Of course What Ifs are dangerous, but prior to French intervention the war was extremely unpopular in Britain, and recruiting was abysmal (sometimes less than 20 men per month in all of Ireland or Britain), and the Brits were having a very difficult time keeping their regiments up to "peace" strength. In fact the only new regiment raised before 1779 was the 71st Highlanders. Once France declared war, however, it became a war against the Perfidious French, and recruiting and regiments went through the roof. Of course the new recruits wanted to fight the French, and one new regiment, the 77th, mutinied when told they were going to North America. Still the rest did not, and most of the new troops ended up in N.A. or in areas where old regiments were freed up for service against us Americans. Contrary to what many Brits believe, most of the new troops went to America and not to fight the French. Also British overall troop strength went up from about 30,000 to 54,000. This would have been highly unlikely without French entry.

        For the French, of course, it was more than the Monarchy could afford, and played no small role in bringing out the conditions of Revolution shortly afterward.

        Now I am not saying that French assistance was not critical to U.S. independence, but that direct intervention likely prolonged the war.

        Tuebor

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        • #34
          That direct intervention was the reason the US won in the end. And it turned the war into a world war, where North America was only one theater. British troop strength initially decreased in North America as they sent troops to protect their 'investment' in the Caribbean against the French.

          And the British were soundly beaten. They surrendered two armies, one to the US and one to the Americans and the French. The only things they held in 1783 were ports-New York, Charleston, and Savannah. And that was because of the Royal Navy.
          We are not now that strength which in old days
          Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
          Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
          To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

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