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  • Trump wants to militarize space

    Trump is calling for a new branch of the military, a "space force."

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/tr...cid=spartanntp

    This amounts to militarizing space. This is something that's been avoided by the major powers outside reconnissance up to now. One can bet that any "Space Force" will want to start finding ways not to just cheaply put their forces in space but to supply weapons to them in doing so. If he gets this, it could start a brand new arms race between the US, China, and Russia in particular, with possibly some other powers joining in. I can't see the EU jumping into this as they are spending next to nothing on defense and are loathe to increase that spending.

  • #2
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Trump is calling for a new branch of the military, a "space force."

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/tr...cid=spartanntp

    This amounts to militarizing space. This is something that's been avoided by the major powers outside reconnissance up to now. One can bet that any "Space Force" will want to start finding ways not to just cheaply put their forces in space but to supply weapons to them in doing so. If he gets this, it could start a brand new arms race between the US, China, and Russia in particular, with possibly some other powers joining in. I can't see the EU jumping into this as they are spending next to nothing on defense and are loathe to increase that spending.
    Trump is a Johnny-come-lately to the Space Force concept. Its been kicking around in Congress for a while, and the Air Force has been fighting it. It is basically a way to centralize all military space entities since all branches do it in one way or the other. No one is really talking about "weaponizing" space.

    Tuebor

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    • #3
      While space militarization has been an idea kicked around for decades, I don't think Trump really has any great interest in forwarding the concept very far. I've watched Trump most of my adult life, and studied his actions closely these last 3 years. Trump is a Sun Tzu businessman. Look back on his tactics. It's all The Art of War. How better to hamstring Putin and China than to get them spending ridiculous amounts of money on mostly fruitless military space programs?

      I have some analytical thoughts on Trumps logic that I'm formulating for a sure to be flame worthy post to come. I've adjusted my opinion of him since he started as a candidate and have come to see the method in his madness. He just may be a political genius when all is said and done. That may just be all part of the bigger plan.

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      • #4
        Forced rampant military production was the tactic used by Reagan to help finish of the Soviet Union, remember.

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        • #5
          Two points:

          A separate but equal branch of the military will find a reason to justify their existence as a separate entity. In this case it will be to militarize space. I could see a Space Force wanting control of all ICBM's, taking those from the Air Force. After all, they do go into space when launched. I could see them wanting control of most ABM systems for the same reason.

          Then they want a manned presence in space. Why? Because people = money. Having lots of toys and no people doesn't get you the big budgets. The USAF knows that. That's why their missile forces languish behind the manned aircraft component.

          As to military production: Rampant production right now has no particular purpose.

          I could see a space force lobbying congress to put a base on the Moon. That would be a major big ticket item and bring in lots of money and a need for lots of people. The generals (admirals?) running a Space Force would be all on that like flies on ….

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          • #6
            I put up the Beebs screed about this, I think its a gr8 idea. But I thought 'Brilliant Pebbles' was a gr8 idea as well.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brilliant_Pebbles
            Credo quia absurdum.


            Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

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            • #7
              Could I possibly get a tax break?
              We hunt the hunters

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              • #8
                Space force?

                I'm still waiting for us to get back to the Moon.

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                • #9
                  I'm more interested in how this is going to be spun with some of the usual anti-Trump claims. But, yeah, I wouldn't mind a space force as long as there is a benefit of having it.
                  The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the Second only applies to muskets?

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                  • #10

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                      Two points:

                      A separate but equal branch of the military will find a reason to justify their existence as a separate entity. In this case it will be to militarize space. I could see a Space Force wanting control of all ICBM's, taking those from the Air Force. After all, they do go into space when launched. I could see them wanting control of most ABM systems for the same reason.

                      Then they want a manned presence in space. Why? Because people = money. Having lots of toys and no people doesn't get you the big budgets. The USAF knows that. That's why their missile forces languish behind the manned aircraft component.

                      As to military production: Rampant production right now has no particular purpose.

                      I could see a space force lobbying congress to put a base on the Moon. That would be a major big ticket item and bring in lots of money and a need for lots of people. The generals (admirals?) running a Space Force would be all on that like flies on ….
                      You got it right with this. Space+Military=Massive long term expense, graft, and waste...and putting a stop to it, or even containing it would be nye impossible. The military doesn't give up it's toys.

                      I would entertain a NASA implemented moon base undertaking however. The technological advancements garnered under the somewhat restrained NASA umbrella could have huge future impacts in countless other commercial and strategic ventures. Let NASA learn the science somewhat affordably, and you have the jump on your opponents if ever you need to take it to a military level. Plus, for all the talk of Star Wars programs over the years, space has proven to be a largely joint field of operation for all nations involved. We've so far (surprisingly) managed to play nice together up there. I suspect that won't change.

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                      • #12
                        I wouldn’t count on NASA doing things on the cheap. They are spending as much money now that we can not send men into low earth orbit as they were when we had 4 shuttles.
                        Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedy. -- Ernest Benn

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Blackhat View Post
                          Forced rampant military production was the tactic used by Reagan to help finish of the Soviet Union, remember.
                          And I fear it's being used against you now.

                          Russia (is not the SU) spends some 70 billion USD on its military, USA spends 600.
                          Last edited by Snowygerry; 19 Jun 18, 03:05.
                          Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Game.

                          Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

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                          • #14
                            I think it's an idea that has to be considered. Either China or Russia would go for it if they had the money and technology.

                            AS pointed out, right now NASA is largely useless; we can't even get into low orbit on our own.

                            But we need to learn from the failures of the Army Air Corps: we need all research going into space-borne military applications to be on the same page and moving in the same direction..
                            Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tsar View Post
                              I wouldn’t count on NASA doing things on the cheap. They are spending as much money now that we can not send men into low earth orbit as they were when we had 4 shuttles.
                              I don't either, but I would at least hear out some proposals on the topic. Also, NASA is still a government agency. Nothing the government does is ever "on the cheap" but they would be cheaper than a military venture by a long shot and considerably easier to restrain, or even cancel the program all together. Don't believe you'd have that option as easily available once the military machine got the ball rolling.

                              NASA's under performance vs spending I think is due in large part to a lack of focus of mission, and drifting in to areas out of it's scope of operation. I don't have the figures at hand, I'll have to do some digging, but I'm wondering what financial expense has occurred since Obama decided to get them more involved in the whole climate change side show. The politicization of the science community regarding that has turned climate science into a free for all of "think the right way - get the funding and the fame" scenario. It brings out the leaches every time. NASA has avoided the entanglement of politics, and in turn ideological graft, reasonably well as far as I can tell since the end of the initial space race. Has it been tainted now? I don't know off hand.

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