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  • Mediocrity ?! We're probably in one of our greatest point.
    There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

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    • Originally posted by Cult Icon View Post
      has any conservative (Marxist/ neo-Marxist) name dropper EVER read Marx?
      I have but Das Kapital (trans) is boring as hell.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

        I have but Das Kapital (trans) is boring as hell.
        It is also a misread and misuse of history. That's what happens when you stay locked up in a library--no practical experience with life.
        Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

        Comment


        • Some might prefer to do the Cliffs Notes version.
          https://www.cliffsnotes.com/
          https://www.cliffsnotes.com/literatu...ysis/chapter-6

          Though the Wiki page on Das Kapital might be enough to cover base and avoid a tedious read which presents semi-accurate perspective.
          ...
          Das Kapital, also known as Capital. Critique of Political Economy (German: Das Kapital. Kritik der politischen Ökonomie, pronounced [das kapiˈtaːl, kʁiːtɪk deːɐ pɔliːtɪʃən řːkoːnoːmiː]; 1867–1883) by Karl Marx is a foundational theoretical text in materialist philosophy, economics and politics.[1] Marx aimed to reveal the economic patterns underpinning the capitalist mode of production, in contrast to classical political economists such as Adam Smith, Jean-Baptiste Say, David Ricardo and John Stuart Mill. Marx did not live to publish the planned second and third parts, but they were both completed from his notes and published after his death by his colleague Friedrich Engels. Capital is the most cited book in the social sciences published before 1950.
          ...
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Das_Kapital
          Whiskey for my men, and beer for my horses.
          TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
          Bock's First Law of History: The Past shapes the Present, which forms the Future. *

          Comment


          • So why do you believe that the US is not a great country?
            We are not now that strength which in old days
            Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
            Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
            To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Massena View Post
              So why do you believe that the US is not a great country?
              Because of our current President.
              "Ask not what your country can do for you"

              Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

              you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

              Comment


              • Good point. He certainly is not contributing to the nation or even attempting to defend it and fulfill his oath of office. However, the nation is greater than any one man including the current occupant of the Oval Office. He's small, petty, a pouting adolescent and completely unfit to hold the office he was elected to-witness his proposed treatment of the retired intelligence service chiefs.

                https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/23/polit...ces/index.html

                Has Flynn's clearance been revoked?

                https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/23/polit...rea/index.html
                We are not now that strength which in old days
                Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                Comment


                • If one takes off their blinkers, American greatest has been falling long before Trump.

                  Here's a short list:

                  Diminished economy strength in national debt, deficit trade, and inability to use expedient economic sanctions;

                  Diminished military capabilities in force structure, dated weapon systems, maintaining weapons systems;

                  Educational system producing non-competitive graduates around the world;

                  Lack of political bipartisanship to work national issues;

                  Complacent/unknowledgeable society in national security.
                  Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by R.N. Armstrong View Post
                    If one takes off their blinkers, American greatest has been falling long before Trump.

                    Here's a short list:

                    Diminished economy strength in national debt, deficit trade, and inability to use expedient economic sanctions;

                    Diminished military capabilities in force structure, dated weapon systems, maintaining weapons systems;

                    Educational system producing non-competitive graduates around the world;

                    Lack of political bipartisanship to work national issues;

                    Complacent/unknowledgeable society in national security.
                    You left off the one crucial factor that makes all of the other things you listed meaningless in any context: we have no national will to succeed any longer. We quit fighting to win in Korea and it;s gone downhill ever since.

                    Americans just want their beer, their sports, their reality programs and their meaningless lives to proceed every day without interruption.

                    We're so afraid that no one will like us that we might as well commit national suicide and be done with it.
                    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                      Mediocrity ?! We're probably in one of our greatest point.
                      WE do not even qualify to be mediocre any more. We are now the nation of the lowest common denominator, to the point that a major portion of the American population cannot even speak the language.
                      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                      Comment


                      • What ?
                        There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by R.N. Armstrong View Post
                          If one takes off their blinkers, American greatest has been falling long before Trump.

                          Here's a short list:

                          Diminished economy strength in national debt, deficit trade, and inability to use expedient economic sanctions;

                          Diminished military capabilities in force structure, dated weapon systems, maintaining weapons systems;

                          Educational system producing non-competitive graduates around the world;

                          Lack of political bipartisanship to work national issues;

                          Complacent/unknowledgeable society in national security.
                          I don't see the diminished military. The DoD budget has been a very large slice of the Fed budget for years. F35/22's Ford Class and Zummwalts have come on line at the cost of other weapons systems. Ground forces are getting new weapons and of course the mostly unneeded new uniforms. The has been a major influx of civilian workers over the past 30-40 years that is questionable if they are cost effective

                          Lack of political bipartisanship to work national issues;
                          You can say that again. Our Fed government has become close to dysfunctional. Ed system is sub-par below the Graduate School level. That is a national disgrace.

                          https://www.master-and-more.eu/en/to...-in-the-world/
                          Last edited by Half Pint John; 24 Jul 18, 01:18.
                          "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                          Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                          you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post

                            I don't see the diminished military. The DoD budget has been a very large slice of the Fed budget for years. F35/22's Ford Class and Zummwalts have come on line at the cost of other weapons systems. Ground forces are getting new weapons and of course the mostly unneeded new uniforms. The has been a major influx of civilian workers over the past 30-40 years that is questionable if they are cost effective

                            You can say that again. Our Fed government has become close to dysfunctional. Ed system is sub-par below the Graduate School level. That is a national disgrace.

                            https://www.master-and-more.eu/en/to...-in-the-world/
                            I can remember when there was satisfaction when Congress was deadlocked because they couldn't get anything done. Interesting how attitude changes with the times.
                            We are not now that strength which in old days
                            Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                            Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                            To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                            Comment


                            • "Das Kapital" is like "Wealth of Nations". Both are extraordinarily dated and flawed, but still important to know as part of a person's economic education. Kapital was written during British Industrialism and Wealth of Nations in an pre-industrial society. A lot of the observations or areas of inquiry still hold true today. To pretend that these are entirely invalid is to pretend that reality organizes itself on the fantasies of political ideology...

                              People using "Marxist" to call everything liberal would not use it if they knew what it was. Marx' thought exercise of reverse accounting ( measuring exploitation instead of capital) is amusing but also true in a way for an industrial outfit and office drones.


                              Marxist professor teaching a much more understandable version of it:



                              https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...7FFF28B99C1303
                              Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
                              Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
                              Barbarossa Derailed I & II
                              Battle of Kalinin October 1941

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by R.N. Armstrong View Post
                                The surprise from the thread for me was the number of posters who thought America has maintained its greatness. Subsequently, there was not enough consensus nor tolerance to find mutual interests in restoring American greatness. I believe we are doomed to follow the European countries into mediocrity and join them in the dustbin of history.
                                It seems that "Greatness" is a matter of perspective. When viewed from the POV of nationalism and military effectiveness, of course America is not great with a national debt of $175,000 per taxpayer and a track record of military failure.

                                Rome was great of course but it would be considered less than a 3rd world country today.

                                https://www.amazon.com/Pussycats-Res...ords=pussycats

                                But does nation vs. nation competitiveness really matter if the people have plenty already????? In countless ways the people are exponentially better off than in 1955 although they don't appreciate it or take full advantage of it. There are many ways to enjoy the stagnation, and far more than in the "American century" of 1955..

                                Perhaps the best response for Americans is to make peace with the stagnation and focus on one's own business. Don't put faith on egoist political leaders to save the country and spend too much time following this mirage. Perhaps solutions will appear; and then political leaders that are actually worthwhile can finally emerge and the people can put maximum effort in raising them up.

                                This may take a lifetime, as throughout most of history nations grew at a snail's pace. But definitively the nation needs to put its financial house in order first..... I don't know if its even possible to produce a political movement that is dedicated on reducing the government footprint. It seems antithetical to what a politician is.
                                Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
                                Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
                                Barbarossa Derailed I & II
                                Battle of Kalinin October 1941

                                Comment

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