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  • Originally posted by pamak View Post

    Correct! It was the nation (defined in racial terms for the Nazi ideology- fascism did not have such racial overtones) that only mattered. Germany above anything else. By contrast, the communist ideology saw the community in economic and not national terms. If anything they challenged the concept of the nation (Workers of the world unite).
    tbh there's not much use arguing with the politically brainwashed; scholarship and knowledge doesn't matter, only the effort to craft short-term, bogus rhetoric
    Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
    Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
    Barbarossa Derailed I & II
    Battle of Kalinin October 1941

    Comment


    • The roots of conservatism/libertarianism is largely in childhood mental conditioning from organized religion (see theory of constructed emotions), which equips their followers with cognitive biases based on the superiority of their religious doctrine and the need to expand the nuclear family in order to generate growth in the religious business and 10% of their income donated to support the religious institution. The patterns of thought are set in place, and then the person thinks based on them on autopilot. A lot of political beliefs are, at the deepest level, intelligence-free packets of emotion and their subsequent rationalizations.

      The mental attitude of the nazis of hating or demeaning everyone who isn't part of the preferred group shows in conservatism as well.

      the Nazis sought the death of handicapped people and later, the homosexuals, expulsion of "foreign" races, women safely in the breeding pen and the kitchen, and the extermination of the Jews. They also attacked those whose cultural activities opposed their ideology and once in power, sought to ban or imprison them.

      The modern, fanatical elements of conservatism like to denigrate with pretend rhetoric (under the guise of objectivity) groups outside that of the white nuclear family.

      1. minority movements as being inherently parasitic and supporting mentally inferior races ( blacks, hispanics, native americans, etc.) 2. exaggerating the danger and the fear of illegal immigrants 3. paranoid hate and fear of muslims 4. far left and left wing subcultures as being degenerate and destructive to society 5. minorities as being secret operatives for their home countries (although interestingly enough, we have a sudden turn as of late with the left engaging this as well with the russians in their war against trump) 6. Attacking the academics/intellectuals as all left wing propagandists; thus their work is useless or worse than useless.

      Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
      Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
      Barbarossa Derailed I & II
      Battle of Kalinin October 1941

      Comment


      • Geez, TAG. It's just that damned easy, isn't it?
        The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the Second only applies to muskets?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by pamak View Post

          Before you make such claims, it is better if you double check first your beliefs...

          https://www.marxists.org/archive/mar...1867/rules.htm


          Excerpts

          "
          Source: The General Council of the First International 1866-1868. Minutes; Progress Publishers, Moscow, for the Centenary of the First International in 1964, pp. 265-270;
          First published: as a pamphlet Rules of the International Working Men’s Association, London, 1867.

          The Rules and Administrative Regulations of the International Working Men’s Association were approved by the Geneva Congress at its sittings on September 5 and 8, 1866. The Rules were based on the Provisional Rules drawn up by Marx in October 1864, into which some changes and additions were inserted.
          ...

          RULES


          Considering,

          That the emancipation of the working classes must be conquered by the working classes themselves; that, the struggle for the emancipation of the working classes means not a struggle for class privileges and monopolies, but for equal rights and duties, and the abolition of all class rule;

          ...


          3. The General Council shall consist of working men belonging to the different countries represented in the International Association. It shall from its own members elect the officers necessary for the transaction of business, such as a president, a treasurer, a general secretary, corresponding secretaries for the different countries, &c.

          "

          You confuse Marx with Lenin, The latter did believe in some intellectual leadership (vanguard) that will guide the revolution since Russia was not a developed capitalist nation and lacked the body of proletariat workers who could lead the way...
          Comrade, you are guilty of deviationism, and comrade Emtos will expel you from the marxists international movement .

          Chapter II of The Communist Manifesto , which is the Marxist Bible .
          'The Communists are the most advanced and resolute SECTION of the working-class parties of every country, that section that PUSHES forward all the others '.

          What is the mission of a vanguard ? It is to lead the others and to push them forward .

          Besides, it is obvious that some one who supported and defended slavery had nothing than despise for the workers .

          As most communist leaders, Marx was a bourgeois intellectual, who never worked and who had only contempt for those who used their hands to work .

          Comment


          • Originally posted by ljadw View Post

            Comrade, you are guilty of deviationism, and comrade Emtos will expel you from the marxists international movement .

            Chapter II of The Communist Manifesto , which is the Marxist Bible .
            'The Communists are the most advanced and resolute SECTION of the working-class parties of every country, that section that PUSHES forward all the others '.

            What is the mission of a vanguard ? It is to lead the others and to push them forward .

            Besides, it is obvious that some one who supported and defended slavery had nothing than despise for the workers .

            As most communist leaders, Marx was a bourgeois intellectual, who never worked and who had only contempt for those who used their hands to work .
            This mentions the Communists, not the intellectuals that you mentioned before. The communists are part of the working class. Again, it was only Lenin who believed in an intellectual vanguard!



            Read it here from his script with comments

            https://www.marxists.org/archive/len...d/what-itd.pdf

            Page i

            The proletariat of its own can achieve only ”trade-union con- sciousness.” Accordingly, it was necessary to institute a ”party of a new type” capable of imbuing the working-class with revolutionary consciousness. This is the origin of Lenin’s famous theory of the Party as ”vanguard of the proletariat”. He conceived of the vanguard as a highly centralized body organized around a core of experienced professional revolu- tionaries. Only such a party could succeed in the conditions of illegality prevailing in tsarist Russia at the time.




            PS I saw later your claim that Marx defended slavery. Now, feel free to show the evidence...

            In the meantime

            https://www.marxists.org/archive/mar...oln-letter.htm
            ddress of the International Working Men's Association to Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States of America

            Presented to U.S. Ambassador Charles Francis Adams
            January 28, 1865 [A]




            Written: by Marx between November 22 & 29, 1864
            First Published: The Bee-Hive Newspaper, No. 169, November 7, 1865;
            Transcription/Markup: Zodiac/Brian Baggins;
            Online Version: Marx & Engels Internet Archive (marxists.org) 2000.



            Sir:

            We congratulate the American people upon your re-election by a large majority. If resistance to the Slave Power was the reserved watchword of your first election, the triumphant war cry of your re-election is Death to Slavery...

            Last edited by pamak; 15 Jul 18, 11:06.
            My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Hida Akechi View Post
              Geez, TAG. It's just that damned easy, isn't it?
              you capable of thinking for yourself or do you mindlessly follow everything right wing like he does?
              Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
              Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
              Barbarossa Derailed I & II
              Battle of Kalinin October 1941

              Comment


              • The bizarrely misplaced attack word "Marxist/neo-marxist" is relatively new in its widespread usage; I start seeing it en mass during the great recession and as an attack word for Obama and leftists from solely right wing inflammatory sources.

                The vast majority of people using it have never even read Marx or have any faculty with political science at all, they merely copy the use in a second-hand way because they have been brainwashed by ideologues to do so.

                In the typical right wing ideologues way, I will now call the Nazi Party, SA and the SS ...Marxist organizations!!!!!

                Hitler was a Marxist! Or "Neo-Marxist!?" is that what's trendy these days??
                Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
                Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
                Barbarossa Derailed I & II
                Battle of Kalinin October 1941

                Comment


                • Originally posted by pamak View Post

                  This mentions the Communists, not the intellectuals that you mentioned before. The communists are part of the working class. Again, it was only Lenin who believed in an intellectual vanguard!



                  Read it here from his script with comments

                  https://www.marxists.org/archive/len...d/what-itd.pdf

                  Page i

                  The proletariat of its own can achieve only ”trade-union con- sciousness.” Accordingly, it was necessary to institute a ”party of a new type” capable of imbuing the working-class with revolutionary consciousness. This is the origin of Lenin’s famous theory of the Party as ”vanguard of the proletariat”. He conceived of the vanguard as a highly centralized body organized around a core of experienced professional revolu- tionaries. Only such a party could succeed in the conditions of illegality prevailing in tsarist Russia at the time.




                  PS I saw later your claim that Marx defended slavery. Now, feel free to show the evidence...

                  In the meantime

                  https://www.marxists.org/archive/mar...oln-letter.htm
                  ddress of the International Working Men's Association to Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States of America

                  Presented to U.S. Ambassador Charles Francis Adams
                  January 28, 1865 [A]




                  Written: by Marx between November 22 & 29, 1864
                  First Published: The Bee-Hive Newspaper, No. 169, November 7, 1865;
                  Transcription/Markup: Zodiac/Brian Baggins;
                  Online Version: Marx & Engels Internet Archive (marxists.org) 2000.



                  Sir:

                  We congratulate the American people upon your re-election by a large majority. If resistance to the Slave Power was the reserved watchword of your first election, the triumphant war cry of your re-election is Death to Slavery...
                  Letter from Marx to Proudhon :

                  Without slavery, North America, the most progressive of countries,would be transformed in a patriarchal country .Wipe out North America from the map of the world,and you will have anarchy,the complete decay of modern commerce,and civilisation .Abolish slavery and you will have wiped America off the map of nations .

                  And Marx called Lasalle 'that Jewish n... of Lasalle '.

                  Marx was also an anti-semite : he wrote 'World without Jews '.
                  And, let's not talk about his views about Slaves, Asians, Africans,....

                  And, Engels was not better .

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by pamak View Post

                    This mentions the Communists, not the intellectuals that you mentioned before. The communists are part of the working class. Again, it was only Lenin who believed in an intellectual vanguard!





                    We must save this for eternity: Pamak admits that communists are not intellectuals .

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cult Icon View Post
                      The bizarrely misplaced attack word "Marxist/neo-marxist" is relatively new in its widespread usage; I start seeing it en mass during the great recession and as an attack word for Obama and leftists from solely right wing inflammatory sources.

                      The vast majority of people using it have never even read Marx or have any faculty with political science at all, they merely copy the use in a second-hand way because they have been brainwashed by ideologues to do so.

                      In the typical right wing ideologues way, I will now call the Nazi Party, SA and the SS ...Marxist organizations!!!!!

                      Hitler was a Marxist! Or "Neo-Marxist!?" is that what's trendy these days??
                      Simple minds require simple clichés. It's a common trend.
                      There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ljadw View Post

                        Letter from Marx to Proudhon :

                        Without slavery, North America, the most progressive of countries,would be transformed in a patriarchal country .Wipe out North America from the map of the world,and you will have anarchy,the complete decay of modern commerce,and civilisation .Abolish slavery and you will have wiped America off the map of nations .

                        And Marx called Lasalle 'that Jewish n... of Lasalle '.

                        Marx was also an anti-semite : he wrote 'World without Jews '.
                        And, let's not talk about his views about Slaves, Asians, Africans,....

                        And, Engels was not better .
                        Apparently, you just revealed that you either deliberately try to misrepresent what Marx said about slavery, or that you did not actually bother to find the document from which you brought this partial quote to make the misleading claim that Marx supported slavery.
                        So here is the actual link of the letter and the quote which shows that Marx in this case describes PROUDHON's position with which Marx disagrees.


                        https://marxists.catbull.com/archive...s/46_05_05.htm

                        Bold mine for emphasis

                        "...For him, M. Proudhon, every economic category has two sides – one good, the other bad. He looks upon these categories as the petty bourgeois looks upon the great men of history: Napoleon was a great man; he did a lot of good; he also did a lot of harm.

                        The good side and the bad side, the advantages and drawbacks, taken together form for M. Proudhon the contradiction in every economic category.

                        The problem to be solved: to keep the good side, while eliminating the bad.

                        Slavery is an economic category like any other. Thus it also has its two sides. Let us leave alone the bad side and talk about the good side of slavery. Needless to say, we are dealing only with direct slavery, with Negro slavery in Surinam, in Brazil, in the Southern States of North America.

                        Direct slavery is just as much the pivot of bourgeois industry as machinery, credits, etc. Without slavery you have no cotton; without cotton you have no modern industry. It is slavery that gave the colonies their value; it is the colonies that created world trade, and it is world trade that is the precondition of large-scale industry. Thus slavery is an economic category of the greatest importance.

                        Without slavery North America, the most progressive of countries, would be transformed into a patriarchal country. Wipe North America off the map of the world, and you will have anarchy – the complete decay of modern commerce and civilization. Cause slavery to disappear and you will have wiped America off the map of nations.[*1]

                        Thus slavery, because it is an economic category, has always existed among the institutions of the peoples. Modern nations have been able only to disguise slavery in their own countries, but they have imposed it without disguise upon the New World.

                        What would M. Proudhon do to save slavery? He would formulate the problem thus: preserve the good side of this economic category, eliminate the bad..."




                        Also, what does Marx's antisemitism has to do with what you originally claimed? At that time, most people were antisemites. Heck, you could hear antisemitic statements from US presidents and Evangelicals in the 20th century !
                        The point about Marx started when after I described the difference between Fascism/Nazism and Socialism/Communism you made an unsupported claim that Marxism does not support equality because Marx hated the working class. THIS is what I addressed. Apparently, after I used evidence from Marx's writings to refute your claim, you felt the need to start a new discussion regarding if Marx was an antisemite.


                        I guess now we approach the point when you will bring quotes to show that Marx was a Muslim...
                        Last edited by pamak; 15 Jul 18, 14:32.
                        My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Emtos View Post

                          Simple minds require simple clichés. It's a common trend.
                          Your right, so you are able to understand them....

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Darth Holliday View Post

                            Your right, so you are able to understand them....
                            Simple clichés are used mostly by the Right. Left is much more prone to reflexion.
                            There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

                            Comment


                            • Death of a Nation trailer, complete with "Leftist "nazis and Trump as the future Lincoln

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXPhLXuJ90I

                              "Not since 1860 have the Democrats so fanatically refused to accept the result of a free election. That year, their target was Lincoln. They smeared him. They went to war to defeat him. In the end, they assassinated him."
                              Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
                              Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
                              Barbarossa Derailed I & II
                              Battle of Kalinin October 1941

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cult Icon View Post
                                Death of a Nation trailer, complete with "Leftist "nazis and Trump as the future Lincoln

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXPhLXuJ90I

                                "Not since 1860 have the Democrats so fanatically refused to accept the result of a free election. That year, their target was Lincoln. They smeared him. They went to war to defeat him. In the end, they assassinated him."
                                Don't you hate it when somebody on the Right uses the same sort of hyperbolic rhetorical speech the Left indulges in continuously? When you turn those statements around to make them from a Leftist point of view they sound typical and normal. But, that's the Left for you...

                                Death of a Nation trailer, complete with alt-Right Nazis, and Obama as the future Lincoln.

                                "Not since 1860 have the Republicans so fanatically defended the result of a rigged election. That year their target was Hillary. They smeared her. They went to war to defeat her. In the end, they rigged the election and used the Russians to beat her... "

                                It all sounds so normal when it comes from the loons on the Left...

                                Comment

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