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  • Originally posted by pamak View Post

    Their argument makes as much sense as saying that advertisement is not important because it does not physically buy the product for you. They know it is a weak argument, but it is the only thing with which they are left because now they cannot rationally deny that the Russians tried to help Trump.
    If anything, I'd think the Russians would have wanted Bernie Sanders in the WH. He has more ideological in common with them and could have been easier manipulated. I wouldn't be surprised they were hoping the stuff on RHC would have resulted in investigations and actions where DNC would have removed Hillary and given the slot to Bernie.

    I've no doubt that if the Russian hacking found "dirt" on the GOP, they would have "leaked" that as well.

    BTW, the purpose of advertisement is to get you to select the advertiser's product rather than the competitor's. Political campaigning is just another for of advertisement effort.
    TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

    Comment


    • Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

      If anything, I'd think the Russians would have wanted Bernie Sanders in the WH. He has more ideological in common with them and could have been easier manipulated.
      This sounds like you are still stuck in cold war...you do know it ended? Russia is pretty much an oligarchy, which in turn is perfect ground for Trump.
      Wisdom is personal

      Comment


      • Fascism is a construct of the Left...

        https://www.dailywire.com/news/24305...ft-jacob-airey



        http://www.debate.org/opinions/is-fa...-right-wing-no

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_fascism


        How does the Left respond to this? With a 23 minute long ad hominem



        or this 18 minute harangue of ad hominems





        Comment


        • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
          Fascism is a construct of the Left...

          https://www.dailywire.com/news/24305...ft-jacob-airey



          http://www.debate.org/opinions/is-fa...-right-wing-no

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_fascism


          How does the Left respond to this? With a 23 minute long ad hominem



          or this 18 minute harangue of ad hominems




          Nice to see bringing into the conversation the credentials of right wing hacks convicted for campaign finance fraud (D'Souza) instead of the credentials of people like political scientists.

          Also, even your link admits that Fascism has historically been considered a far-right ideology (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_fascism). So, most political scientists and academics must not agree with you (even though there are always exceptions).The same link also mentions the historical development of that term which has its origins with criticism by Vladimir Lenin of the threat of anti-Marxist ultraleftism.
          It is sooo ironic to see you agree with Lenin when he was trying to call his left-wing critics fascists in order to crash them...

          By the way, should I create a youtube video with my explanation regarding why fascism is a right-wing ideology? Since I have not been convicted for campaign finance fraud, I have better credentials that D'Souza...

          Here is again the post with my explanation which you (or any of the links) have not addressed yet...

          https://forums.armchairgeneral.com/f...50#post5047150
          Last edited by pamak; 14 Jul 18, 22:17.
          My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

          Comment


          • Let's see:

            You start off with an ad hominem

            Then you transition into a mischaracterization of what is said at that link and instead make an appeal to authority.

            Yes, you should make a YouTube video with your explanation. That way you can subject yourself to the ridicule and depredations of many, and not just me.

            Your post is irrelevant. What's to address?

            If it's this,

            It is from this perspective that the Nazi ideology belongs to the right wing spectrum because unlike the leftist communist ideology, the Nazi's did not question inequality and certainly never aimed at the elimination of social classes. On the contrary, they wanted a very rigid and hierarchical socioeconomic structure in which a powerful state would make sure that everything runs smoothly and there will be no social unrest among the different classes.
            Then it is wrong.

            For example, a central tenant of Nazi ideology was that of Volksgemeinschaft.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksgemeinschaft

            Volksgemeinschaft
            (
            German pronunciation:
            ) is a
            German
            expression meaning "people's community".
            This expression originally became popular during
            World War I
            as Germans rallied in support of the war, and it appealed to the idea of breaking down elitism and uniting people across class divides to achieve a national purpose.
            This was a breakdown of the previous aristocracy the "Junker" class in Germany. That is why the military became the Wehrmacht. It was to eliminate the officers being mostly aristocrats and the enlisted workers.

            So, whoever wrote what you quoted has never read, or if they did, understood what Hitler proposed in Mein Kampf. The Nazis not only questioned inequality, they made eliminating it a central tenant of their political platform, and would have over the long run made it part of German life under National Socialism.

            But, the Communists never achieved equality in actuality. The USSR was full of class structures, and racial divides. China too. So, the argument made in that paragraph is simply, and completely, wrong.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
              Let's see:

              You start off with an ad hominem

              Then you transition into a mischaracterization of what is said at that link and instead make an appeal to authority.

              Yes, you should make a YouTube video with your explanation. That way you can subject yourself to the ridicule and depredations of many, and not just me.

              Your post is irrelevant. What's to address?

              If it's this,



              Then it is wrong.

              For example, a central tenant of Nazi ideology was that of Volksgemeinschaft.

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksgemeinschaft



              This was a breakdown of the previous aristocracy the "Junker" class in Germany. That is why the military became the Wehrmacht. It was to eliminate the officers being mostly aristocrats and the enlisted workers.

              So, whoever wrote what you quoted has never read, or if they did, understood what Hitler proposed in Mein Kampf. The Nazis not only questioned inequality, they made eliminating it a central tenant of their political platform, and would have over the long run made it part of German life under National Socialism.


              But, the Communists never achieved equality in actuality. The USSR was full of class structures, and racial divides. China too. So, the argument made in that paragraph is simply, and completely, wrong.
              People's community does not imply that the Nazi believed in the abolition of classes. Also, believing in a hierarchical society does not mean that one should accept traditional hierarchies. For example, modern capitalists obviously did not accept the class system of feudalism but they STILL believed in a society when there is a hierarchy and distinctive classes. So saying that Nazis did not like the old aristocracy means nothing.

              Unlike communism, Fascism and the close related Nazi ideology was never interested in creating classless societies. The presence of a big and powerful government in such systems was an end by itself for such ideologies which saw such presence as a necessary guarantor of social peace among the different classes. For this reason, all types of people's communities, from labor unions, to business communities were tightly controlled and monitored by a powerful state. By contrast, the powerful government in leftist ideologies was just a mean to an end and had theoretically the role of providing leadership during a transitional period towards a classless society when at that time even the idea of a central powerful government would become irrelevant. This is why the Soviet Union with its still strong government was still called "socialist" and not "communist."

              The fact that the communists never achieved equality does not mean that their ideology is the same to that of those who did not believe in such equality. This is like saying that the Christian ideology is similar to a violent ideology because Christian fundamentalists of the past to only failed to accomplish the objective of non violence, but they actually spread more violence. Even if it is true, this does not imply that modern Christians believe in violence. At least today, modern Christians have been successful in controlling violence . In the same way, modern socialists in Europe, despite failures of the past, have managed to better control inequality compared to the non-socialists in the US.

              Here is some information...

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wither...y_of_the_state

              "Withering away of the state" is a Marxist concept coined by Friedrich Engels referring to the idea that, with realization of the ideals of socialism, the social institution of a state will eventually become obsolete and disappear, as the society will be able to govern itself without the state and its coercive enforcement of the law....


              ...

              Although Engels first introduced the idea of the withering away of the state, he attributed the underlying concept to Karl Marx; other Marxist theorists—including Vladimir Lenin—would later expand on it.[1][3] According to this concept of the withering away of the state, eventually a communist society will no longer require coercion to induce individuals to behave in a way that benefits the society.[1][2] Such a society would occur after a temporary period of the dictatorship of the proletariat.[2]
              Last edited by pamak; 15 Jul 18, 02:42.
              My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

              Comment


              • Well then, you are studiously ignoring what the Nazi party platform was:

                9.
                All citizens must possess equal rights and duties.

                10.
                The first duty of every citizen must be to work mentally or physically. No individual shall do any work that offends against the interest of the community to the benefit of all.

                20.
                In order to make it possible for every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education, and thus the opportunity to reach into positions of leadership, the State must assume the responsibility of organizing thoroughly the entire cultural system of the people. The curricula of all educational establishments shall be adapted to practical life. The conception of the State Idea (science of citizenship) must be taught in the schools from the very beginning. We demand that specially talented children of poor parents, whatever their station or occupation, be educated at the expense of the State.

                22.
                We demand the abolition of the regular army and the creation of a national (folk) army.

                http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar...r/25points.htm

                Sounds pretty much like elimination of social classes to me. The Nazis believed in social equality. They wanted everyone equal under the state which would then control their lives.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                  Well then, you are studiously ignoring what the Nazi party platform was:

                  "[9.
                  All citizens must possess equal rights and duties.
                  10.
                  The first duty of every citizen must be to work mentally or physically. No individual shall do any work that offends against the interest of the community to the benefit of all.
                  20.
                  In order to make it possible for every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education, and thus the opportunity to reach into positions of leadership, the State must assume the responsibility of organizing thoroughly the entire cultural system of the people. The curricula of all educational establishments shall be adapted to practical life. The conception of the State Idea (science of citizenship) must be taught in the schools from the very beginning. We demand that specially talented children of poor parents, whatever their station or occupation, be educated at the expense of the State.
                  22.
                  We demand the abolition of the regular army and the creation of a national (folk) army. "


                  http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar...r/25points.htm

                  Sounds pretty much like elimination of social classes to me. The Nazis believed in social equality. They wanted everyone equal under the state which would then control their lives.

                  Edit font to clarify enclosed quote


                  Posses equal right is not equivalent to a classless society

                  Do we believe in equal rights today in the US? Yes! Does this make us believers of a communist type ideology of equality? No!

                  And as I said the Nazi state wanted to control all communities, including those of the workers and of the capitalists, and tell them what to do. The state was the guarantor of social peace in which "trains would arrive on time" because there would not be strikes and unrest as a result of confrontations between capitalists and workers. But the fascist and Nazi ideologies STILL accepted the idea that there will be classes of businessmen and workers. It did not arrest those who controlled the means of production (capitalists) to attempt to create a single community in which everybody would be equal.
                  Last edited by pamak; 15 Jul 18, 00:53.
                  My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                  Comment


                  • "people's community" (based on race with the "best blood" "most racially valuable" rising to the top (like social darwinist/libertarian thinking)). The subhumans were not part of the people's community.


                    Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
                    Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
                    Barbarossa Derailed I & II
                    Battle of Kalinin October 1941

                    Comment


                    • dinesh d'souza is a demented loon

                      He just got pardoned by Trump so he's grateful

                      "Death of a Nation is a 2018 American political documentary film by conservative political commentator Dinesh D’Souza. It is scheduled to be released August 3, 2018, just three months before the 2018 midterms."

                      "Death of a Nation" appears to be a play on words on "Birth of a Nation"

                      Interestingly enough he was not doing Birther propaganda; perhaps because of his own skin color



                      Last edited by Cult Icon; 14 Jul 18, 23:50.
                      Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
                      Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
                      Barbarossa Derailed I & II
                      Battle of Kalinin October 1941

                      Comment


                      • his trailer/media on "Death of a nation" show nazis

                        https://twitter.com/DineshDSouza

                        ah yes, in bizarro world the "Leftist" Nazis make an appearance


                        Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
                        Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
                        Barbarossa Derailed I & II
                        Battle of Kalinin October 1941

                        Comment


                        • Comment


                          • Originally posted by Cult Icon View Post
                            "people's community" (based on race with the "best blood" "most racially valuable" rising to the top (like social darwinist/libertarian thinking)). The subhumans were not part of the people's community.

                            Correct! It was the nation (defined in racial terms for the Nazi ideology- fascism did not have such racial overtones) that only mattered. Germany above anything else. By contrast, the communist ideology saw the community in economic and not national terms. If anything they challenged the concept of the nation (Workers of the world unite).
                            My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                              Let's see:



                              But, the Communists never achieved equality in actuality. The USSR was full of class structures, and racial divides. China too. So, the argument made in that paragraph is simply, and completely, wrong.
                              Marxism never wanted equality,Marx despised the working-class, in his ideal world, society would be ruled by the intellectual vanguard, not by the workers .
                              Ironically, Marxism has disappeared/is disappearing in the countries where it ruled, where it is ruling :Eastern Europe, Russia, China, NK,..but it is becoming stronger where it never had the opportunity to rule :Sweden where cultural Marxism is ruling, Britain (Corbyn ),Germany where the socialist president was praising Marx and where no one objected ,but where the hell would break loose if the AfD would praise Houston Chamberlain ., US (Sanders ),the Vatican,...

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by ljadw View Post

                                Marxism never wanted equality,Marx despised the working-class, in his ideal world, society would be ruled by the intellectual vanguard, not by the workers .
                                Ironically, Marxism has disappeared/is disappearing in the countries where it ruled, where it is ruling :Eastern Europe, Russia, China, NK,..but it is becoming stronger where it never had the opportunity to rule :Sweden where cultural Marxism is ruling, Britain (Corbyn ),Germany where the socialist president was praising Marx and where no one objected ,but where the hell would break loose if the AfD would praise Houston Chamberlain ., US (Sanders ),the Vatican,...
                                Before you make such claims, it is better if you double check first your beliefs...

                                https://www.marxists.org/archive/mar...1867/rules.htm


                                Excerpts

                                "
                                Source: The General Council of the First International 1866-1868. Minutes; Progress Publishers, Moscow, for the Centenary of the First International in 1964, pp. 265-270;
                                First published: as a pamphlet Rules of the International Working Men’s Association, London, 1867.

                                The Rules and Administrative Regulations of the International Working Men’s Association were approved by the Geneva Congress at its sittings on September 5 and 8, 1866. The Rules were based on the Provisional Rules drawn up by Marx in October 1864, into which some changes and additions were inserted.
                                ...

                                RULES


                                Considering,

                                That the emancipation of the working classes must be conquered by the working classes themselves; that, the struggle for the emancipation of the working classes means not a struggle for class privileges and monopolies, but for equal rights and duties, and the abolition of all class rule;

                                ...


                                3. The General Council shall consist of working men belonging to the different countries represented in the International Association. It shall from its own members elect the officers necessary for the transaction of business, such as a president, a treasurer, a general secretary, corresponding secretaries for the different countries, &c.

                                "

                                You confuse Marx with Lenin, The latter did believe in some intellectual leadership (vanguard) that will guide the revolution since Russia was not a developed capitalist nation and lacked the body of proletariat workers who could lead the way...
                                Last edited by pamak; 15 Jul 18, 03:04.
                                My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                                Comment

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