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  • Originally posted by pamak View Post
    Had Greece been Belgium or Germany, I would have LOVED to see the Greek defense budget go down to 1% of the GDP and use the rest of the GDP to help the younger Greek generations which are the one who pay now more than anybody else the effects of the economic crisis as a result of the mistakes of the PREVIOUS Greek generations.
    Finally - someone in the US who can read a map

    Coversely - if Belgium was Greece, I'd wholeheartedly agree we need a bigger army, as we did indeed when the Russians were on the Oder, instead of the Dnjepr.

    If they come back again, we'll increase our military budget again, as it is the NATO council is nothing but a Trump election meeting.

    Originally posted by pamak View Post
    The problem for the Europeans is not lack of military material but lack of political will to use the adequate military material they already have at their disposal in a centralized manner.
    That, and at least as far as Belgium is concerned, the total absence of any credible threat.

    We have the hardest time finding recruits to fill out existing units, just doubling the budget, even if you found a political majority willing to do so, will not remedy that.

    In the US apparently there exists an impression of permanent impending doom, here everyone is fully convinced things have never been more peaceful and there is no reason whatsoever to join the army at this point.

    If you look at the list of countries where NATO was involved in conflict in recent decades - only Yugoslavia could reasonably be considered to have even a remote impact on Belgian security, the rest were conflicts of secondary interest overseas, at the behest of the US.

    Even if you found a politician with the "political will" to go along - he will not find the voters to support him.

    This has been explained to US/NATO delegations over and over - even Trump understands, yet so many here at the ACG apparently do not.
    Last edited by Snowygerry; 12 Jul 18, 04:32.
    High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.
    Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Co.

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    • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
      For the Nazi's to be on the Right they'd have to do stuff like:


      The counter arguments so far for the Nazis being on the Right point to no specifics that indicate they were.
      I indicated that. Nazis didn't give up the tools of production to the people and exploited them. This is a true sign of the Right. All the rest is of any importance.
      There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Idiots

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

        Finally - someone in the US who can read a map

        Coversely - if Belgium was Greece, I'd wholeheartedly agree we need a bigger army, as we did indeed when the Russians were on the Oder, instead of the Dnjepr.

        If they come back again, we'll increase our military budget again, as it is the NATO council is nothing but a Trump election meeting.



        That, and at least as far as Belgium is concerned, the total absence of any credible threat.

        We have the hardest time finding recruits to fill out existing units, just doubling the budget, even if you found a political majority willing to do so, will not remedy that.

        In the US apparently there exists an impression of permanent impending doom, here everyone is fully convinced things have never been more peaceful and there is no reason whatsoever to join the army at this point.

        If you look at the list of countries where NATO was involved in conflict in recent decades - only Yugoslavia could reasonably be considered to have even a remote impact on Belgian security, the rest were conflicts of secondary interest overseas, at the behest of the US.

        Even if you found a politician with the "political will" to go along - he will not find the voters to support him.

        This has been explained to US/NATO delegations over and over - even Trump understands, yet so many here at the ACG apparently do not.


        I would submit that the issue isn't whether Belgium is facing a direct threat, but whether NATO allies are under direct threat.
        You are committed to protecting the security of the nations on the Russian border.
        You may feel secure, but I suspect Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, etc., do not. As such, while Belgium may not need military protection, those nations do.

        The absence of direct conflict for States like Belgium isn't necessarily proof that the alliance is obsolete, but could also be proof of its effectiveness.

        As for the secondary overseas conflicts, I am thinking you mean the war in Afghanistan. While the US likely pressured NATO to become involved, that involvement only came because NATO formally recognized that the attacks of 9/11 triggered their obligations under the terms of the alliance (i.e. an attack on a member state)
        So NATO's involvement was due to treaty obligations agreed to by the member states rather than simply the behest of the US.

        That said, and off topic, I loved watching Belgium play in the WC. They were one of the few teams I saw that was consistently good.
        Perhaps the most enjoyable goal I saw was the final one they scored against Japan.
        Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

        Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

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        • It's only in TA's or other political ideologue's distorted fantasy world will the Nazis be left wing. Of course, everything evil in the world is "leftist" "liberal progressive" so the propaganda minister installed in the brain has to re-organize everything with mental gymnastics.

          Yes! all the historians and scholars of Nazism and WW2 are pushing the leftist agenda! Yes, it is they who are ignorant and wrong, not the great TA, typing from his armchair or the uneducated right wing propagandists that influence him.

          Of course, TA is smarter than everyone else in the world (not just in political BS but in WW2 subjects), that's why he needs to make up distorted rhetoric (conveniently with limited or no sources) and spread his misinformation throughout the interwebs.

          The repetitive theme being that everything left is evil, USA better than everybody in everything in WW2, everything evil is left, etc...
          Last edited by Cult Icon; 12 Jul 18, 07:11.
          Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
          Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
          Barbarossa Derailed I & II
          Battle of Kalinin October 1941

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          • Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
            I would submit that the issue isn't whether Belgium is facing a direct threat, but whether NATO allies are under direct threat.
            You are committed to protecting the security of the nations on the Russian border.
            You may feel secure, but I suspect Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, etc., do not. As such, while Belgium may not need military protection, those nations do.
            Then they probably need to rethink their internal and external policies. This is usually the biggest problem.
            There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Idiots

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            • Originally posted by Emtos View Post

              Don't need to read further. Krupp, Porshe and plenty of others had excellent time during Nazi era.

              The balance between Left and Right is defined by the ownership of means of production.

              An average German worker didn't had anything meaning that Nazi Germany was on the Right.
              Thanks for the Marxian-Leninist definition. Fascist rejected the economic interpretation of history.
              Last edited by R.N. Armstrong; 12 Jul 18, 07:18.
              Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

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              • Originally posted by R.N. Armstrong View Post

                Thanks for the Marxian-Leninist definition.
                There is no other. They created the modern Left after all.
                There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Idiots

                Comment


                • While the word fascism has its root in the Italian fascio, literally a bundle or sheaf, derived from the Latin fasces, an axe encased in a bundle of rods that was carried before the magistrates in Roman public processions as a symbol of authority and the unity of the state. Interestingly, Before 1914, the symbolism of the Roman fasces was usually appropriated by the Left.

                  As applied to later Fascism in power in Spain, Italy and Germany on the eve of WWII, it became a blend of conservatives, national-socialists and radical Right bonded together by common enemies and common passions for a regenerated, energized, and purified nation at whatever cost to free institutions and the rule of law.

                  So the conflicting labels for Fascism is a moving concept through history. Contemporary scholars have evolved to "Fascism may be defined as a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation, or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy, and purity, in which a mass-based party committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandon democratic liberties and pursue redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion."

                  Now there's a definition for all seasons.
                  Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

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                  • Originally posted by Emtos View Post

                    There is no other. They created the modern Left after all.
                    Since the people's workers could not achieve their quotas and a desire to take more from the state than they wanted to qive based on their capability, modern Left and Right is defined on the basic nature of man--altruistic or self-interest. The 75 year experiment in Russia with communism shows self-interest rules in the end. And the history of all Communist states is the millions of people they shot to make them think Left.
                    Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by R.N. Armstrong View Post

                      Since the people's workers could not achieve their quotas and a desire to take more from the state than they wanted to qive based on their capability, modern Left and Right is defined on the basic nature of man--altruistic or self-interest. The 75 year experiment in Russia with communism shows self-interest rules in the end. And the history of all Communist states is the millions of people they shot to make them think Left.
                      People don't desire to take more than they give. They want to take what belongs to them and not to a rich bastard. The problem with Russia was that it made a jump from 15th century to 22th without passing by all the steps between them. Similar for many other Communist states. Many of those people shot were not for reasons of Communism. Stalin killed many communists for his own interest. In the end, Communism will develop from the most advanced countries like Marx imagined.
                      There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Idiots

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                      • Originally posted by Emtos View Post

                        Then they probably need to rethink their internal and external policies. This is usually the biggest problem.
                        The nations threatened by the Russians need to rethink their policies or the Belgians?
                        Are you suggesting that the Russians get to invade nations that do not submit to them?


                        Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                        Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Emtos View Post

                          People don't desire to take more than they give. They want to take what belongs to them and not to a rich bastard. The problem with Russia was that it made a jump from 15th century to 22th without passing by all the steps between them. Similar for many other Communist states. Many of those people shot were not for reasons of Communism. Stalin killed many communists for his own interest. In the end, Communism will develop from the most advanced countries like Marx imagined.
                          I cannot get past your lead sentence. How do you explain the Nomenklatura in the Soviet Union, and all the elites in other Communist countries? They seemed to believe they should have perks and comforts beyond the workers. How can a Soviet Premier collection multiple automobiles while most the populace cannot afford one; and the country has never been able to market a car on the international level? Yugoslavia did, South Korea does
                          Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post

                            The nations threatened by the Russians need to rethink their policies or the Belgians?
                            Are you suggesting that the Russians get to invade nations that do not submit to them?

                            The aren't threatened. But if they don't rethink their policies, this can be the case.
                            There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Idiots

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by R.N. Armstrong View Post

                              I cannot get past your lead sentence. How do you explain the Nomenklatura in the Soviet Union, and all the elites in other Communist countries? They seemed to believe they should have perks and comforts beyond the workers. How can a Soviet Premier collection multiple automobiles while most the populace cannot afford one; and the country has never been able to market a car on the international level? Yugoslavia did, South Korea does
                              You read the whole post. Nomenklatura and all the elites in other Communist countries are the old elites reborn. They used the ideas of Communism for their own gain. A Soviet joke about that: " Brezhnev's mother comes in Kremlin. She looks around and says to him: you're living like a tsar now. Yes mom, replies Brezhnev. She starts to cry and says: what if bolcheviks come again ?".
                              There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Idiots

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Emtos View Post

                                The aren't threatened. But if they don't rethink their policies, this can be the case.
                                Well, those Nations certainly feel threatened.

                                I hope you are aware that your comment that they will be threatened if they don't do as the Russians dictate kind of proves my point.
                                So thank you.
                                Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                                Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

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