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  • #16
    Re TR as a populist: TR was a progressive -- favored organized labor, went after trusts and monopolies, spent the better part of his presidency slugging it out with JP Morgan 'cause he felt that the House of Morgan's commanding position in financial markets was anti-competitive. Doesn't sound remotely like Trump . . . .

    Another difference: TR lost a son in a war for which he advocated that the US join. Can't see any of Trump's kids donning a green suit -- ever.
    I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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    • #17
      Originally posted by craven View Post


      that was not ineffect when we were growing up
      Didn't need to be. We were all proud to be Americans.
      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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      • #18
        Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

        It's not enforced because people of different religious beliefs, including atheists, cannot be compelled to swear "under God" if such contradicts the tenets of their faith.
        Yes, they can, because the pledge does not specify which "god", and agnostics like myself have no problem with the pledge. I go to many events where things like opening prayers are common, and I simply respect the rights of others and remain true to my own beliefs at the same time. Their beliefs do not interfere with mine, nor will I allow mine to interfere with theirs.

        Don't want to be an American? Go somewhere else.
        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

          It's not enforced because people of different religious beliefs, including atheists, cannot be compelled to swear "under God" if such contradicts the tenets of their faith.
          Yea, I know that, but Craven's original comment was

          actually growing up standard was just had to stand for the anthem and hand over heart for the Pledge. Am I incorrect on that or just experienced something unique to my area


          The "standard" was codified back then too. Hand over heart, men hat off over heart, uniformed military salute when the anthem is played. Obama stood there like the oblivious idiot he is and didn't do it.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Massena View Post

            Roosevelt served his country in combat, as a police commissioner, and as president. He had both courage and integrity, two virtues that Trump sadly lacks.
            If you believe that the US hasn't always been great, especially since the end of the 19th century, then your historical perspective is way out of whack. And if you expect Trump to fix anything, you're going to be sadly disappointed.
            What nonsense, did Lincoln serve his country in combat, police commissioner.... T
            Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

              It's not enforced because people of different religious beliefs, including atheists, cannot be compelled to swear "under God" if such contradicts the tenets of their faith.
              I just omit that phrase when I say the pledge. Not 'tall difficult, and still legitimate.

              Tuebor

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              • #22
                Originally posted by R.N. Armstrong View Post

                What nonsense, did Lincoln serve his country in combat, police commissioner.... T
                No...he merely betrayed his oath of office and murdered some 600,000 men to support his vanity. Very few politicians serve in any useful way. That's why they go into politics in the first place - to avoid risk. Look at Lil' Bush - deserted the Air National Guard and betrayed his oath of service to hide in politics. Senior Bush was the only one with a set of balls.
                Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                  No...he merely betrayed his oath of office and murdered some 600,000 men to support his vanity. Very few politicians serve in any useful way. That's why they go into politics in the first place - to avoid risk. Look at Lil' Bush - deserted the Air National Guard and betrayed his oath of service to hide in politics. Senior Bush was the only one with a set of balls.
                  Still peddling that Lost Cause crap I see -- yet still will not acknowledge the Confederacy's reaction to Cleburne's Memorial. Wonder why . . . .
                  I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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                  • #24
                    I would have to add on lost greatness, the US relied on its economic power to achieve objectives and handle international and going to war was a failure in policy. Our decline in economic power (poor trade agreements, lost industrial capacities....) has forced the US to use its military power from Korea to present to solve international issues. We were great when we had the two options. But without the economic club we have been in long wars. Trump seems to be aware of the linkage between economic strength and national security issues, and he is attempting to use it against Korea today.
                    Last edited by R.N. Armstrong; 14 Jun 18, 13:47.
                    Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

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                    • #25
                      Typo with new system.
                      Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

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                      • #26
                        ^ You're repeating yourself. Ha Ha
                        I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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                        • #27
                          Anything to entertain you guys. )
                          Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

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                          • #28
                            [QUOTE=T. A. Gardner;n5039688]

                            Actually it was.

                            https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Public_Law_77-623#Sec._7.

                            did you read the link to the forum I sent seems like a lot of people were taught not to put hand over heart during the Anthem.

                            So that begs to the question why the difference.

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                            • #29
                              [QUOTE=craven;n5039739]
                              Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

                              Actually it was.

                              https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Public_Law_77-623#Sec._7.

                              did you read the link to the forum I sent seems like a lot of people were taught not to put hand over heart during the Anthem.

                              So that begs to the question why the difference.

                              So it appears Obama did it correct according to what many were taught. Just saying.

                              and if we going to nit pick saluting a guy in charge of killing thousands sounds kind of screwed up. but that nit picking

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by R.N. Armstrong View Post
                                I would have to add on lost greatness, the US relied on its economic power to achieve objectives and handle international and going to war was a failure in policy. Our decline in economic power (poor trade agreements, lost industrial capacities....) has forced the US to use its military power from Korea to present to solve international issues. We were great when we had the two options. But without the economic club we have been in long wars. Trump seems to be aware of the linkage between economic strength and national security issues, and he is attempting to use it against Korea today.
                                and Canada and Great Britain Germany and France Italy Not sure that logic for Trump and Korea works but not against Russia

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