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  • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

    He was on the Left too...
    OMG your lost. Really lost. You really, said nicely need help. Find one place that says Hitler or Nazi are from the left. What reality are you living in?

    Comment


    • only in idiotic right wing propaganda tropes /memes is Hitler a "leftist" "liberal progressive"
      Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
      Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
      Barbarossa Derailed I & II
      Battle of Kalinin October 1941

      Comment


      • More White House spin and lies:

        https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cid=spartandhp
        We are not now that strength which in old days
        Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
        Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
        To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cult Icon View Post
          only in idiotic right wing propaganda tropes /memes is Hitler a "leftist" "liberal progressive"
          You are absolutely correct. This was yet another self-delusional attempt to cast aspersions to anyone who does not like Trump.
          We are not now that strength which in old days
          Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
          Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
          To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

            He was on the Left too...
            No, he was a right wing demagogue. The Communists were the leftists, not the Nazis. Why else do you believe they were at each others' throats?
            We are not now that strength which in old days
            Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
            Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
            To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Cult Icon View Post
              only in idiotic right wing propaganda tropes /memes is Hitler a "leftist" "liberal progressive"
              Only the oblivious or studiously ignorant would say that Hitler was on the Right. The platform of the Nazi party, aside from the overt racism, is straight line Leftist political ideas.


              http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar...r/25points.htm

              https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...rs-rsquo-party

              They wanted abolition of Capitalism and imposition of Socialism as the economic system
              The state would control the media and press exclusively
              Private land ownership would largely be abolished.
              A national health care system would be imposed
              Freedom of religion, speech, assembly, etc., would be guaranteed only where it didn't conflict with the interests of government and the state. In other words, there wouldn't be those freedoms.
              Public education would be mandatory and private education abolished
              Compulsory physical fitness and group activities would be instituted starting at childhood.
              A national, government run pension system would be implemented

              The Nazis also:

              Pushed public transportation
              Banned smoking in public and wanted to institute a total ban
              Implemented serious gun control
              Implemented abortion and eugenics programs

              A key emphasized tenant of their platform was THE COMMON GOOD COMES BEFORE THE INDIVIDUAL.

              Hitler, and the Nazi party, were Leftists. They'd be called Progressives today.

              Demonstrate how they were on the Right.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post


                They wanted abolition of Capitalism and imposition of Socialism as the economic system
                -
                Don't need to read further. Krupp, Porshe and plenty of others had excellent time during Nazi era.

                The balance between Left and Right is defined by the ownership of means of production.

                An average German worker didn't had anything meaning that Nazi Germany was on the Right.
                There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Emtos View Post

                  Don't need to read further. Krupp, Porshe and plenty of others had excellent time during Nazi era.

                  The balance between Left and Right is defined by the ownership of means of production.

                  An average German worker didn't had anything meaning that Nazi Germany was on the Right.
                  The Nazis only got as far as imposing STATIST CAPITALISM on Germany. Had they somehow won the war, they would have gone further.

                  Statist Capitalism is another variant of Socialism. In Statist Capitalism the means of production stay in private hands while what is produced and by who is decided by the government.

                  https://www.forbes.com/sites/harrybi.../#45f843d15f5c

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statism

                  Here, the government controls what gets produced. They often own a controlling share in larger corporations (in Nazi Germany Junkers Aircraft was mostly owned by the government who took it over when it was going bankrupt in the mid 30's, as one example). That is very much Leftist.

                  The average German under Nazi control had to conform to government ideas, programs and guidelines.

                  The Nazis built massive vacation sites on the Baltic and were expecting all German citizens to vacation in these government approved sites doing government approved activities.

                  Children had to join the Hitler Youth and attend schools approved and run by the government.

                  Worker unions were abolished unless controlled directly by the government for purposes of indoctrination.

                  The bottom line is that the economics of Nazi Germany were shifting Left as fast as things would allow. That the Nazis never completely imposed their goals on society is irrelevant to what those goals were or where they fall on the political spectrum.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

                    The Nazis only got as far as imposing STATIST CAPITALISM on Germany. Had they somehow won the war, they would have gone further.

                    Statist Capitalism is another variant of Socialism. In Statist Capitalism the means of production stay in private hands while what is produced and by who is decided by the government.
                    No, it's not Socialism. Government isn't a sign of Socialism. The sign is the ownership of means of production. Government can be prefectly capitalist and the production is decided for his own interests. Furthermore, the production in Nazi Germany wasn't much different from wartime production in other countries.


                    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                    Here, the government controls what gets produced. They often own a controlling share in larger corporations (in Nazi Germany Junkers Aircraft was mostly owned by the government who took it over when it was going bankrupt in the mid 30's). That is very much Leftist.
                    It's not. Happens in almost all countries, US included. It's not in interest of government to have a factory going bankrupt and being faced by angry workers and losing productivity.


                    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                    The bottom line is that the economics of Nazi Germany were shifting Left as fast as things would allow. That the Nazis never completely imposed their goals on society is irrelevant to what those goals were or where they fall on the political spectrum.
                    Actually they were staying on the right. Ressources and labor force would be used in first place to bolster the German corporations and their owners. An ordinary citizen would get little profit from all of this. He was never intended to be in control of anything. It was the Capitalism pushed to it's logical conclusion, the Right at its maximum.
                    There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

                    Comment


                    • Ridiculous, there is not a single serious scholar in political science/history that would consider the Nazis left wing..

                      only uneducated right-wing ideologues that make up fake rhetoric and brainwash their historically ignorant followers to hate their political enemies more would claim such a thing and go through such efforts:
                      The Big Lie: Exposing the Nazi Roots of the American Left, by Dinesh DíSouza

                      https://www.amazon.com/Big-Lie-Expos.../dp/1621573486

                      Dinesh Joseph D'Souza (/dɪˈnɛʃ dəˈsuːzə/; born April 25, 1961) is an Indian Americanconservative political commentator, author and filmmaker who has been described as far-right.[

                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinesh_D%27Souza

                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Fascism

                      Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left, from Mussolini to the Politics of Meaning is a book by Jonah Goldberg,Goldberg is a syndicated columnist and the editor-at-large of National Review Online.
                      Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
                      Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
                      Barbarossa Derailed I & II
                      Battle of Kalinin October 1941

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Cult Icon View Post
                        Ridiculous, there is not a single serious scholar in political science/history that would consider the Nazis left wing..

                        only uneducated right-wing ideologues that make up fake rhetoric and brainwash their historically ignorant followers to hate their political enemies more would claim such a thing and go through such efforts:
                        The Big Lie: Exposing the Nazi Roots of the American Left, by Dinesh DíSouza

                        https://www.amazon.com/Big-Lie-Expos.../dp/1621573486

                        Dinesh Joseph D'Souza (/dɪˈnɛʃ dəˈsuːzə/; born April 25, 1961) is an Indian Americanconservative political commentator, author and filmmaker who has been described as far-right.[

                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinesh_D%27Souza

                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Fascism

                        Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left, from Mussolini to the Politics of Meaning is a book by Jonah Goldberg,Goldberg is a syndicated columnist and the editor-at-large of National Review Online.
                        Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it so.

                        The way I see it is the Left doesn't want to be saddled with Hitler and Mussolini along with the already clear plethora of vicious, malicious, dictators they already have to accept.

                        Academics, mostly Leftists themselves, will certainly go out of their way to "prove" Hitler wasn't one of their own. But, what makes the Nazis on the Right and not say Stalin, Mao, or Castro? How were the Nazi's different from them?

                        Comment


                        • Yup. The Nazis even had a green agenda, and took great emphasis in fighting obesity through group activities.

                          Item by item they match today's leftist agenda.

                          I've been saying this here for a while: today's liberal;s are the Fourth Reich.
                          Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                          Comment


                          • For the Nazi's to be on the Right they'd have to do stuff like:

                            Allow freedom of assembly, speech, and religion with the minimum of government interference.
                            Allow land ownership, and that includes foreign land ownership.
                            Encourage a free market and capitalism without government interference.
                            Promote the individual over the group or society
                            Eschew the welfare state
                            Allow freedom of choice in education, health care, and other decisions.
                            Allow businesses to fail rather than step in and prop them up.

                            Basically, there isn't anything the Nazis were doing that fits a model of government by the Right.

                            Racism isn't a Right-Left issue. It is something any government or society can decide to do or not do as part of its social norms. So, the US can be Right of Center in governance while being racist to Blacks and Asians as it was in the 30's and 40's. The Nazis can be Leftists and equally be racist to Jews, gypsies, and people from Eastern Europe.

                            The counter arguments so far for the Nazis being on the Right point to no specifics that indicate they were.

                            Comment


                            • Which government in history fills the criteria you have set for right wing? I can't think of a single one thst would fill your requirements.

                              ​​​​​​
                              Wisdom is personal

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

                                Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it so.

                                The way I see it is the Left doesn't want to be saddled with Hitler and Mussolini along with the already clear plethora of vicious, malicious, dictators they already have to accept.

                                Academics, mostly Leftists themselves, will certainly go out of their way to "prove" Hitler wasn't one of their own. But, what makes the Nazis on the Right and not say Stalin, Mao, or Castro? How were the Nazi's different from them?
                                It is wrong to label NS as left or right :to do this is falling in the marxist trap, it proves also that even the US have been infiltrated by marxism .
                                Left/right are meaningless words,as every ideology, government has left and right aspects .
                                Marxism is an ideology founded on economics, on materialism,it is also anti-nationalist ,it is the twin brother of liberalism .
                                National-socialism is founded on race, racism and is nationalist and also hostile to international liberal capitalism .
                                Those who say that the nazis are on the right, must also admit that the usual nationalist Third World dictators who are nationalizing foreign companies are also on the right .Hitler did some privatisations but also nationalizations, as did Mexico 100 years ago ,thus that mean that the Mexican government was on the right ?
                                In Francoist Spain there was also a big government sector (railways ...) does that mean that Franco was on the left ?
                                About Euthanasia : the same Churchill who supported euthanasia, was also vehemently opposed to the Labour Party and the unions .

                                Today's partisans of euthanasia are culturally on the left, but many of them are economically on the right .

                                The 19th and 20th centuries were dominated by the (in)fighting between liberalism/marxism and conservatism and nationalism .
                                The result was the defeat of marxism, and the rising threat of liberalism in the 'western 'counties .

                                Comment

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