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  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

    Probably, but who makes up the difference in NATO defense spending? America...again?

    Freedom isn't "free". If you want to be free, you must pay the price, because there is no such thing as a free lunch.
    Correct: But freedom also means that countries assess the level of threat they face and make decisions based on this assessment. Bullying them to spend more just because the US spends more is not the way to go. Bring the military data to show the EU military deficit COMPARED to Russia for which the US has to make-up the difference, and then you will have a case to complain.
    My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

    Comment


    • Originally posted by pamak View Post

      Correct: But freedom also means that countries assess the level of threat they face and make decisions based on this assessment. Bullying them to spend more just because the US spends more is not the way to go. Bring the military data to show the EU military deficit COMPARED to Russia for which the US has to make-up the difference, and then you will have a case to complain.
      That's true, up to the part where they expect someone else to take over if the threat level is more than they wanted to spend. Personally, I don't care who runs Europe, and I'm totally opposed to American lives or American money being used by any Euro/NATO nation as their "guarantee" of national safety. Like I said, if they want it they can pay the price for it, but it isn't "free" and it never will be.
      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

        That's true, up to the part where they expect someone else to take over if the threat level is more than they wanted to spend. Personally, I don't care who runs Europe, and I'm totally opposed to American lives or American money being used by any Euro/NATO nation as their "guarantee" of national safety. Like I said, if they want it they can pay the price for it, but it isn't "free" and it never will be.
        I do not know why you think that they expect you to take over. You (the US) are EAGER to take over because you have an establishment which makes money out of such commitments. .You have a military which outspends all your competitors COMBINED and you still claim reasons to increase the US military budget or start an arms race in space.
        My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

        Comment


        • In this instance, Schumer and Pelosi are exactly correct:

          https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cid=spartandhp

          Trump embarrassed himself, his administration, and his country.
          We are not now that strength which in old days
          Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
          Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
          To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

          Comment


          • Trump won't utter his insults and false accusations face to face:

            https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...cid=spartandhp
            We are not now that strength which in old days
            Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
            Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
            To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

            Comment


            • Here is video by a (probably) Russian guy who has about 250,000 youtube followers regarding a hypothetical scenario of conventional war between the EU and Russia (his whole channel is dedicated to such hypothetical confrontations).
              During the video, there are different cards showing number of weapon systems in different categories for the EU and the Russians. I watched his video about a hypothetical war between Greece and Turkey, and I actually found the his analysis was quite close to what I know about that scenario. Still, I cannot vow for the credibility of the video, and I am aware about the numerous assumptions that are made and the factors of military capability that are not part of his analysis (and the author is also explicit about the assumption he makes). I just brought it here to see reactions regarding his equipment comparison. At 12:03 he even has a map with specific numbers for basic military equipment for each country (including stored equipment). In this video, the EU has a quantitative and qualitative advantage in almost all major categories.

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT7j6xU-Fjo

              My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

              Comment


              • much of an expert on USAREUR during the Cold War...just makes you sound like a full blown REMF.
                1st of the 2nd Cav attached 70-73 ever see the other side in the cold of the winter border?3rd/1ID 83-86. Your half Zoomie butt was stationed in sight of the Rhine.
                "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                youíre entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

                  The Left started the French revolution, but not the American one. The American one was started by what today might be termed Independents and Right of Center, Centrists. The principals in the American revolution were all upper middle and upper class men of means. They didn't espouse Leftist beliefs. After winning, they didn't go on the typical excesses the Left does when they get control. Businessmen, not the mob, were responsible for the American revolution.

                  Look at the French Revolution and The Terror of Paris. The Leftist revolutionaries there began murdering everyone they thought opposed them. They formed the Paris Commune. The whole of the revolution in France ended in a rampage of excess that resulted in a dictatorship (eg., Napoleon, who became "Emperor.")

                  If anything the leaders of the American revolution were well Right of Center in wanting to put every restraint on government they could. They wanted no part of having a strong, big, central government. They wanted control to be as local as possible.
                  So, so...now you say that the Right starts bloody violence? Got it.

                  Some how you skip over the wishes of the Federalist who wished all power in he select few. Na ya, I'm used to you using selected facts.
                  "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                  Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                  youíre entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                  Comment


                  • OAN, I've looked is there a real difference from FOX. Germany is one of many nations that knows well the cost of freedom. It also what is the cost of war. Trump has no fear of Russia, why should the Germans?
                    "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                    Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                    youíre entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                      OAN, I've looked is there a real difference from FOX. Germany is one of many nations that knows well the cost of freedom. It also what is the cost of war. Trump has no fear of Russia, why should the Germans?
                      BIG difference from FOX, but enlighten us, O Chosen One...what is the media that you consider truthful and balanced? Hmm?

                      Because Russia at least 3000 miles closer to Germany, they have a much bigger military budget, and they have fought several wars since WWII, while Germany has done virtually nothing to gain field experience and America will not risk a war with Russia to protect Germany. That's a EURO problem.

                      Just a guess, mind you, but I'll bet that's how it will go if the issue comes up for real.
                      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                      Comment


                      • It wont come up for real, not in the current political and world situation anyway. What the USA actually wants from it's NATO Allies is professional and mobile forces, airlift capacity, etc. tools to fight modern insurgency wars that the US seems determined to get into. I doubt USA, at least any military personnel of any real capacity and capability, has any interest in a German army set up to fight the war that never came, and never will.
                        Wisdom is personal

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post

                          So, so...now you say that the Right starts bloody violence? Got it.
                          No, I've said all along the Right can be violent. But their violence isn't enmasse and random like the Left's but much more targeted and far more deadly to that target.

                          Some how you skip over the wishes of the Federalist who wished all power in he select few. Na ya, I'm used to you using selected facts.
                          Debate always occurs on the Right and Center. The Left quashes it the first chance they get. There'd be no Federalist papers or a long drawn out debate if a Leftist government were in power. They'd move immediately to consolidate power and eliminate any opposition. So, the Federalist papers and the several variants of document, like the Articles of Confederation, that preceded the Constitution show, again, the American revolution wasn't a Leftist one.

                          The French Revolution got Napoleon
                          The British Revolution got Cromwell
                          The Mexican Revolution got the Institutionalized Revolutionary Party
                          The Cambodian revolution got Pol Pot
                          The Chinese revolution got Mao

                          See the pattern? You go Left and you get dictators and single party power.

                          The Left in outcomes is evil. While many people on the Left are very nice and decent people on their own, they get together and what they produce, even trying with honest effort to improve everyone's life is death and destruction. Never let the Left have power, if you are smart.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                            much of an expert on USAREUR during the Cold War...just makes you sound like a full blown REMF.
                            1st of the 2nd Cav attached 70-73 ever see the other side in the cold of the winter border?3rd/1ID 83-86. Your half Zoomie butt was stationed in sight of the Rhine.
                            Oh, yeah...the "Cav"...the other white meat. How was it that well known slogan went in Germany during the Cold War? "The horse for the horse you never rode, the black bar for the line you never crossed and the yellow spoke for itself." Oh, yeah, I remember you guys real well. You were ever so unpopular around the rest of USAREUR. Disposable speed bumps until the heavies like us could get to Fulda.

                            "The other side of the cold in Germany"? Seriously? After going through two winters in Korea? That's funny...

                            "Half zoomie?" You even talk funny. Besides my standard duties at the clinic supporting some 13,000 troops and dependents in our immediate area alone, I was also the battalion surgeon for 2/28 Inf (Mech), the stand-in for the flight surgeon at Finthen who went skiing all winter every year, the 2/1 ADA medical officer - Vulcan/Chapparal who went with them to live fire at Todtendorf and Crete, and the medical officer for the Nike-Zeus (nuclear) SAM site on the same base in Wachenhut. So among my other duties I was PRP/Nuclear Surety for the SAM site.

                            I also was on call every night for the families of the 30 pilots who lived in my building in case their kids got sick in the middle of the night. Somwhere in the middle of all of this, I have also crossed the Rhine River - first time by Americans since WWII - on motorized rafts (German Engineer unit) and pontoon bridge (our own engineers) on three separate occasions. The Germans screamed bloody murder at having to stop all barge traffic on the Rhine for three days. You remember the Rhine River, right? Big, wet, deep and on all of the travel posters which is as close as you ever got.

                            Like all of the battalion medical officers, I also pulled duty at least once a week all night at the Wiesbaden AF Hospital ER since they didn't have enough doctors, and pulled duty once or twice a week all night in our own kaserne clinic to cover our own people. When I was bored with that lazy schedule, I went to the field with my unit which was 50% of our training schedule, often with zero notice, including every single REFORGER for five years.

                            I also wrote the Medical Annex to the GDP, which your own unit followed just like the rest of USAREUR, so if you went to war, your medics would be following my instructions. Bet that gives you a shrinking feeling in the old testicles, doesn't it? Because you never read it, not having the right clearance, and have no idea how I set up your medical system to work to save your sorry butt. I probably kept a lot of troops alive if the war came along. I sure as hell gave them, and you, a lot better chance than the Army did. You're welcome, BTW.

                            I've got your "half-zoomie"right here...zippy.
                            Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

                              No, I've said all along the Right can be violent. But their violence isn't enmasse and random like the Left's but much more targeted and far more deadly to that target.



                              Debate always occurs on the Right and Center. The Left quashes it the first chance they get. There'd be no Federalist papers or a long drawn out debate if a Leftist government were in power. They'd move immediately to consolidate power and eliminate any opposition. So, the Federalist papers and the several variants of document, like the Articles of Confederation, that preceded the Constitution show, again, the American revolution wasn't a Leftist one.

                              The French Revolution got Napoleon
                              The British Revolution got Cromwell
                              The Mexican Revolution got the Institutionalized Revolutionary Party
                              The Cambodian revolution got Pol Pot
                              The Chinese revolution got Mao

                              See the pattern? You go Left and you get dictators and single party power.

                              The Left in outcomes is evil. While many people on the Left are very nice and decent people on their own, they get together and what they produce, even trying with honest effort to improve everyone's life is death and destruction. Never let the Left have power, if you are smart.
                              Left out one. Hitlers rise to power.
                              "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                              Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                              youíre entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post

                                Left out one. Hitlers rise to power.
                                He was on the Left too...

                                Comment

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