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  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    In what is probably a useless attempt to return to the actual topic, the slogan "MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN" should not be devisive for American citizens, and it should make us wonder what the agenda of those offended by it really is. To tear down America?

    Why does the idea of making America great nation again anger anyone?
    Appreciate you adjusting the thread back on track. Thread postings have illustrated your point on the anger.

    Were we great:

    With a President who traveled around the world apologizing to other countries for our nation;

    With deficits in trade agreements that reduced our economic power as a leverage in policy (it was once considered in this country that going to war was a failure in policy;

    With the loss of economic power, we have relied on the military for policy solutions which has not been working too well;

    With a military force cannabilizing parts to keep weapons systems running, reduced training, retarding modernization, and allowing other nations to achieve forms of military parity in conventional forces (as well as a few grasping the nuclear option)?

    We should be angry if we cannot have respected economic and military power behind our policies in a world that would gladly see our demise.
    Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

    Comment


    • Your points are good. We stopped being "great" after WWII, IMHO, but the real downhill slide came with Viet Nam. However, the question was, and still is, why should the idea of regaining our national status and pride fill many of us with anger and hostility? Do we want to fail?

      Yes, we should be angry at our government for failing us, but the solution is not to take it out on each other, but to make our anger known to them, and to demand that they make the changes we need.
      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        Your points are good. We stopped being "great" after WWII, IMHO, but the real downhill slide came with Viet Nam. However, the question was, and still is, why should the idea of regaining our national status and pride fill many of us with anger and hostility? Do we want to fail?

        Yes, we should be angry at our government for failing us, but the solution is not to take it out on each other, but to make our anger known to them, and to demand that they make the changes we need.
        Excellent post!
        ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

        BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

        BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by SRV Ron View Post

          The latest Drudge headlines show that quite well as the Liberal Democrats cringe, see the second headline, at the thought that more people then ever are being hired, locally, there are Help Wanted signs everywhere, and wages are starting to go up in many of the low paying ones as hours are starting to be added to the part time work force.

          RECORD 155,576,000 EMPLOYED...

          DEMS BLAST 'RECKLESS' JOBS BOOM...

          FLASH: Hispanic Unemployment Rate Falls to LOWEST LEVEL...
          By nature Democrats will deny any Republican success, they like the thought of people having to eat out of their hands.
          My worst jump story:
          My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
          As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
          No lie.

          ~
          "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
          -2 Commando Jumpmaster

          Comment


          • Hi

            To Make America Great Again, you'd first have to define just what great means and in what specific areas your willing to have greatness, use that greatness and to what end?

            All Great powers eventually fall from the pinnacle for various reasons, both forced or through consequence of others. America is where it is today because of the actions of those from both the left and right, no one side, no matter how else you want it to be, have a monopoly on either success or failure.
            Equally those actions undertaken by either side, have reflected how the other 96% of the worlds population views and interacts with you. Some people wont give a fig how the 96% view the US but they're missing the point and they might as well go life in North Korea, whose popn believe their a great nation with a great leader. I imagine most sane Americans don't want that 1984 mantra driven ideal of 'greatness' but most Americans can't agree on what true greatness is or if its just some idealistic roses around the door semi-real memory conjured from personal remembrances or understanding!

            From my POV the US is still 'great' though I imagine my idea of great will far short of some of the more radical ideas of what greatness is. America is a great nation because of its benevolent nature and that benevolence is brought about by both altruistic and self-serving requirements. The problem arises when either of those two attitudes becomes out of balance. However, this is only exacerbated when you have pendulum responses to either, Obama to Bush and Trump to Obama just to name the most recent episodes.

            Regards

            Andy H
            "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." Churchill

            "I'm no reactionary.Christ on the Mountain! I'm as idealistic as Hell" Eisenhower

            Comment


            • Well put, Andy.

              "Greatness" also depends on what generation you belong to. My idea of greatness is a return to an honest and hard-working America that stood up for itself, meant what it said, and did not wage senseless political wars. The time before Viet Nam was troubled, but very much better than the America of today, but probably the idealistic time of America's greatness was in the '40's when we knew what we had to do and would do whatever it took to achieve those goals, in a nation that had a solid moral code and clung to it in the face of adversity.
              Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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              • Greatness depend also on circumstances one cannot control. When the US emerged out of two world wars as the only kid in the block, of course, it was great. Everybody else was covered in rumbles and dust. So, trying to compare the current economic environment to that of the period after WWII, misses the point. And when people try to explain this apparent "decline" of the American "Greatness" by demonizing groups of people, then there are sufficient reasons to make somebody angry.
                My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  Well put, Andy.

                  "Greatness" also depends on what generation you belong to. My idea of greatness is a return to an honest and hard-working America that stood up for itself, meant what it said, and did not wage senseless political wars. The time before Viet Nam was troubled, but very much better than the America of today, but probably the idealistic time of America's greatness was in the '40's when we knew what we had to do and would do whatever it took to achieve those goals, in a nation that had a solid moral code and clung to it in the face of adversity.
                  And blacks were segregated, lynched periodically, women were kept in the home and could be beaten without fear of legal complications, the practice of child molestation was safe, if you were Native American you could be drafted, but not buy beer, and Truman could get the US into conflicts in Greece and Korea while downgrading the US military to almost nothing (combat gear salvaged off WW2 battlefields, two-battalion regiments). Before that we tried the sit out WW2 until our own carelessness got us dragged in. Then we bombed cities flat, killing millions of women, children, and old folks in the hopes it would break the enemy's morale, which it didn't.

                  The 40s were great if you were a white male. You always forget, MM, that we non-whites didn't spring up out of whole cloth with the Civil Rights movement.

                  Sure, you had it nice in the 40s and the 50s. But other people were paying the price.

                  Things today are a bit weird, but it is much more fair that the '40s. Those were not good times unless you were a white male who didn't mind gross injustice.
                  Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post

                    And blacks were segregated, lynched periodically, women were kept in the home and could be beaten without fear of legal complications, the practice of child molestation was safe, if you were Native American you could be drafted, but not buy beer, and Truman could get the US into conflicts in Greece and Korea while downgrading the US military to almost nothing (combat gear salvaged off WW2 battlefields, two-battalion regiments). Before that we tried the sit out WW2 until our own carelessness got us dragged in. Then we bombed cities flat, killing millions of women, children, and old folks in the hopes it would break the enemy's morale, which it didn't.

                    The 40s were great if you were a white male. You always forget, MM, that we non-whites didn't spring up out of whole cloth with the Civil Rights movement.

                    Sure, you had it nice in the 40s and the 50s. But other people were paying the price.

                    Things today are a bit weird, but it is much more fair that the '40s. Those were not good times unless you were a white male who didn't mind gross injustice.
                    Just a brief clarification for historical accuracy. Truman did not get the US into conflict in Greece, at least not in the sense that he did in Korea's case. There was not direct participation of the US military. On the other hand there was military and economic assistance which was sold to the American public as being necessary to bring safety and stability and secure Greece from the communist threat (at that time there was a civil war in Greece between capitalists and communists). This policy eventually progressed to a general one (Marshall plan) for the Western Europe.
                    My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by pamak View Post

                      (at that time there was a civil war in Greece between capitalists and communists). .
                      Marxist nonsense, something one can expect from a marxist :the civil war in Greece was between anti-communists and communists. not between capitalists and communists:capitalism is an economic system, communism a political system ;capitalists are rich people, but 99,999 % of anti-communists are not capitalists: Ernest Bevin was an anti-communist ,but not a capitalist .Was Karamanlis, who nationalized Olympic Airwaya, a capitalist ?
                      As answer, I expect a lot of Marxist waffle .

                      Comment


                      • Attacking the NATO alliance is not supporting either the United States or the western alliance. The existence of NATO has kept the peace in Europe since 1949 when It was created and Trump is playing with fire by not supporting it. Further, it plays right into Putin's game plan for Europe and Russia and the expansionist ambitions of the Russian dictator.

                        https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...cid=spartandhp
                        We are not now that strength which in old days
                        Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                        Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                        To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                        Comment


                        • 1. It's a lie that NATO maintained peace in Europe.
                          2. It's a lie that Putin has plansfor Europe.
                          3. It's a lie that he is a dictator.

                          Massena back to his habits.
                          There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Idiots

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                            1. It's a lie that NATO maintained peace in Europe.
                            2. It's a lie that Putin has plansfor Europe.
                            3. It's a lie that he is a dictator.

                            Massena back to his habits.
                            History really isn't really your strong suite, is it?
                            Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                              History really isn't really your strong suite, is it?
                              There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Idiots

                              Comment


                              • The issue is not "Trump is playing with fire by not supporting it (NATO)", but rather it is Trump calling for the NATO membership to meet their agreed fiscal commitment as members. And, if one watched real news, the US ambassador to NATO observed membership is responding to his complaint.
                                Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

                                Comment

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