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Never Trump Conservatives and North Korea

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  • Never Trump Conservatives and North Korea

    The North Korea talks have been extensively covered in multiple threads but largely from the perspective of the Liberal establishment vs Trump perspective. There is however legitimate concerns being expressed by Conservatives. It is certainly true that the concessions North Korea is making are not new and had been agreed on by previous administrations and that the main difference is the removal of demands by the U.S. that North Korea was never going to agree on. Making the concessions and praising a monster like Kim Jong Un is indeed unsettling. See what Ben Shapiro had to say.

    http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/06/1...or-kim-jong-un

    My take on this form of criticism is that moralizing international relations is a dangerous game. Living your life as a moral individual makes the world a better place but Nations are not subject to positive examples in the same way as individuals. Societies are mindless beasts that are immune to rational argument. They must be changed one person at a time and often the luxury does not exist to completely maintain your principles during negotiations. In the end Trump just wants results and principle be damned. He is exactly what you would expect a New York City business liberal who has been married three times to be.

    The question is finding the right balance between pragmatic necessity and idealism. Making the world a safer place to live and holding on to your principles is probably impossible?

    We hunt the hunters

  • #2
    I don't think Kim is being praised, but he's certainly no more of a monster than some of our allies in the ME. So who cares? Our only objective and concern should be de-escalation and peace. The morals of Kim are irrelevant so long as he's not a threat to anyone outside of NK. No important concessions were made on Trump's part. Wargaming in the region should have been stopped long ago, that was one way in which the US was the antagonizer and made peace impossible.

    We also have to keep in mind that many conservatives either support or are funded by the MIC, so of course a peaceful resolution is concerning to them. It's never what they wanted.
    Last edited by TactiKill J.; 13 Jun 18, 22:00.
    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
    - Benjamin Franklin

    The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

    Comment


    • #3
      The sad part is, all of this will be for not the moment the next democrat or republican takes office.
      "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
      - Benjamin Franklin

      The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

      Comment


      • #4
        Trump is wrong again on North Korea:

        https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...cid=spartanntp

        The 'material' that Trump was talking about in his news conference in Singapore was overwhelmingly nonsense.
        We are not now that strength which in old days
        Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
        Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
        To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

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        • #5
          Ignoring the record of a murdering dictator is not the way to go:

          https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...cid=spartandhp
          We are not now that strength which in old days
          Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
          Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
          To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Massena View Post
            Ignoring the record of a murdering dictator is not the way to go:

            https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...cid=spartandhp
            For many years the Liberal media, academics, and philosophies found it very palatable to ignore the crimes of Stalin and recently those of Castro. Currently they are largely ignoring the crimes committed in the name of socialism in Venezuela. That is the danger I was speaking of when I said that ideological principles often do not take into account real world circumstances.
            We hunt the hunters

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            • #7
              Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post

              For many years the Liberal media, academics, and philosophies found it very palatable to ignore the crimes of Stalin and recently those of Castro. Currently they are largely ignoring the crimes committed in the name of socialism in Venezuela. That is the danger I was speaking of when I said that ideological principles often do not take into account real world circumstances.
              Those with TDS would praise the Final Solution if Trump opposed it.
              Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Massena View Post
                Trump is wrong again on North Korea:

                https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...cid=spartanntp

                The 'material' that Trump was talking about in his news conference in Singapore was overwhelmingly nonsense.
                According to you Trump is wrong about everything and I mean everything, in your mind is there anything that he is right about, as far as I am concerned he is right about a lot of things, but he can't be (according to you) just because he is Trump!
                Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

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                • #9
                  Ignoring a murdering dictator that has nuclear weapons as almost all previous administrations have done kind of left Trump between a rock and a hard spot.

                  We can't forget that this isn't just about North Korea. China has apparently removed some missiles in a secret side agreement. Whatever you think of Trump he does seem to be persuasive.
                  We hunt the hunters

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                  • #10
                    And then we have a serious concession by Trump to the North Koreans:

                    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...cid=spartandhp
                    We are not now that strength which in old days
                    Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                    Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                    To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post

                      For many years the Liberal media, academics, and philosophies found it very palatable to ignore the crimes of Stalin and recently those of Castro. Currently they are largely ignoring the crimes committed in the name of socialism in Venezuela. That is the danger I was speaking of when I said that ideological principles often do not take into account real world circumstances.
                      Trump is going out of his way to praise Kim, while overlooking or excusing his crimes against his own people as well as murdering an American hostage.
                      We are not now that strength which in old days
                      Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                      Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                      To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Trung Si View Post

                        According to you Trump is wrong about everything and I mean everything, in your mind is there anything that he is right about, as far as I am concerned he is right about a lot of things, but he can't be (according to you) just because he is Trump!
                        Jealousy is a terrible master. As Mark Twain noted, "Nothing is so hard to bear as another man's success'.
                        Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          What's worse, praising NK or Israel? Which country has more human rights violations? Why should we criticize one while handing out welfare checks to the other?
                          "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
                          - Benjamin Franklin

                          The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Massena View Post

                            Trump is going out of his way to praise Kim, while overlooking or excusing his crimes against his own people as well as murdering an American hostage.
                            You do realize that you are insulting Asian culture? Face is everything and complimenting and insulting your enemies just ritual.
                            We hunt the hunters

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post

                              Jealousy is a terrible master. As Mark Twain noted, "Nothing is so hard to bear as another man's success'.
                              For those who like Mark Twain, it is important to note that he specifically mentioned that his quote was not meant to include Obama's success in which case criticism, including criticism of his deals with the Iranians is valid and not a sign of jealousy...
                              My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

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