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A first in fast food: Union workers

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  • #46
    Originally posted by craven View Post
    not sure they outlived there usefulness but they do need a revamp. Something more along the line of the professional sports unions operate

    Teams make X dollars and then the owners and players fight over percentages and that changes as the market changes.

    remember how some unions refused to take cuts in the auto industry during the down turn if company is not making money something got to give.
    I've never understood why a union would rather keep their high paying salaries, and force their company into bankruptcy, than take a cut and see the company, and by extension, their jobs, survive.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
      Not just auto unions.

      In the 1980s, the Chicago Tribune newspaper automated their printing methods making all of their typesetters obsolete.
      The Tribune said they would retrain the typesetters and employ them elsewhere, but the typesetters said if they weren't retained as typesetters they would strike.
      The Tribune seeing an opportunity to remove the burden of retraining obsolete workers said to go ahead.
      The strikers kept their vigil in front of the Tribune for years before giving up.

      Anyway, you are right, they need to revamp their approach because they are doing their members more harm than good.
      When a worker wasn't easily replaced by a machine they had more leverage. Those days are gone and unions need to consider that.
      That's funny -- but were the typsetters as dangerous as the auto-workers?

      A former running back from the University of Arkansas named Bruce Lee ran the western region for the United Auto Workers, and was in charge of the Fremont Union Local 1364. Now, normally, somebody like Bruce Lee is supposed to defend his union members no matter what, but even he says they were awful.
      Bruce Lee

      It was considered the worst workforce in the automobile industry in the United States. And it was a reputation that was well-earned. Everything was a fight.

      They spent more time on grievances and on things like that than they did on producing cars. They had strikes all the time. It was just chaos constantly.

      One of the expressions was, you can buy anything you want in the GM plant in Fremont. If you want sex, if you want drugs, if you want alcohol, it's there. During breaks, during lunchtime, if you want to gamble illegally-- any illegal activity was available for the asking within that plant.
      Frank Langfitt

      Sounds like prison.
      Jeffrey Liker

      Actually, the analogy to prison is a good analogy, because the workers were stuck there because they could not find anything close to that level of job and pay and benefits at their level of education and skill. So they were trapped there.

      And they also felt like we have a job for life, and the union will always protect us. So we're stuck here, and it's long term. And then all these illegal things crop up, so we can entertain ourselves while we're stuck here.
      Rick Madrid

      A lot of booze on the line. I mean, it was just amazing. And as long as you did your job, they really didn't care.
      Frank Langfitt

      What kind of booze? What were people drinking?
      Rick Madrid

      Whiskey, gin.
      Frank Langfitt

      That's Rick Madrid. He began working at the plant in 1955. He mounted tires on Chevy trucks.
      Rick Madrid

      When I was mounting tires, we'd drink. I'd bring a thermos of screwdrivers with me. But I never was into drugs.
      Frank Langfitt

      Sex?
      Rick Madrid

      Love it.
      Frank Langfitt

      Did you ever have sex at the plant?
      Rick Madrid

      Yeah.
      Frank Langfitt

      Frequently?
      Rick Madrid

      I wasn't that fortunate.
      Peter Ross

      There was a guy in here, he would be selling pot.
      Frank Langfitt

      Peter Ross repaired machinery on the assembly line at GM.
      Peter Ross

      I'd be walking through the plant with my tools and my radio, and you see a big cloud of smoke. You don't want to inhale it. You'd get a contact high.
      Frank Langfitt

      If you're wondering how people kept their jobs, well, back then, the UAW was still quite powerful. Under the union contract, it was almost impossible to fire anybody. And if management ticked off the union, workers could just shut the plant down in minutes.

      With that sort of leverage, absenteeism became absurd. On a normal day, one out of five workers just didn't show up. It was even worse on Mondays. Billy Haggerty worked in hood and fender assembly. He says so few workers showed up some mornings, management couldn't start the line.
      Billy Haggerty

      They brought a lot of people off the street to fill in when they didn't have enough people.
      Frank Langfitt

      Who would they find?
      Billy Haggerty

      Go right across the street to the bar and grab people out of there and bring them in.
      Frank Langfitt

      Workers filed grievances, formal complaints against management, over all kinds of things. Someone who isn't your boss asks you to clean something up? Hit them with a grievance. A manager steps in to do a job that isn't his? Grievance.

      The strategy was simple. Pile up grievances, real or imagined, by the thousands, then use them to squeeze money or concessions out of management. And Fremont workers struck back at their bosses in other ways. They'd intentionally screw up the vehicles, put Coke bottles or loose bolts inside the door panels so they'd rattle and annoy the customer. They'd scratch cars.

      Richard Aguilar inspected vehicles at the plant. He saw one guy do something even worse.
      Richard Aguilar

      He left some loose bolts on this front suspension. That was dangerous. I went and told the assistant manager right away. They went out there, and they checked it, and there were like 400 cars he'd done that too. He was mad because they had suspended him for drinking.

      "NUMMI 2015," by Frank Langfitt, broadcast on This American Life, National Public Radio, 17 Jul 2015
      - emphasis mine

      We need more unions, 'cause we need more dangerous products in the market.

      It's actually a great piece, and I highly recommend listening to it. It's very enjoyable.

      On the one hand, I've seen, up close, the Ironworkers' local in New Jersey do some really good things for its members, like offering regular training in new technologies and techniques, thus ensuring that they can keep current and relevant in an ever-changing industry. Granted, their reporting of their pension funds would cost any bank its charter, but apart from that, they do alright for their members. On the other hand, I've seen the UFT fight tooth-and-nail to keep manifestly unsuitable individuals in the classroom, clearly to the detriment of the students. My wife was a union member for twenty years, and she hated it: she was plain in her belief that her union only benefited the goldbricks. From what I saw, she was right. So clearly unions have their uses -- but there are also fields for which they are unsuitable. Far-and-away the one place where unions shouldn't be doing business is in the public sector: the mixture of members numbers and political pressure generates a decided conflict of interest that only serves to injure the taxpayers.
      Last edited by slick_miester; 03 May 18, 12:19.
      I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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      • #48
        Originally posted by phil74501 View Post
        I've never understood why a union would rather keep their high paying salaries, and force their company into bankruptcy, than take a cut and see the company, and by extension, their jobs, survive.
        They didn't - the union leaders wanted it that way because they get paid no matter what.

        It's about power...not money. Give in or go under. Fear the power of the union. That's what they want.

        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

        Comment


        • #49
          Union guys had a certain mindset. I worked for some companies that wanted to work 40 hours a week but wanted four days at ten hours a day. The Union guys refused the job as they considered any work after eight hours to be overtime. I took it as a three day weekend appealed to me!

          Pruitt
          Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

          Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

          by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
            Union guys had a certain mindset. I worked for some companies that wanted to work 40 hours a week but wanted four days at ten hours a day. The Union guys refused the job as they considered any work after eight hours to be overtime. I took it as a three day weekend appealed to me!

            Pruitt
            and one less day of commuting

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            • #51
              The unions have a long history of resisting change, including that brought about by new technology.

              For many years after diesels took over the railroads, the union insisted on maintaining a fireman position.

              Since workers are not being abused and overworked, except in the white collar industries, maybe it's time to do away with most of them and start up unions for the office drones who now do the work of three or four for the price of one.
              Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                The unions have a long history of resisting change, including that brought about by new technology.

                For many years after diesels took over the railroads, the union insisted on maintaining a fireman position.

                Since workers are not being abused and overworked, except in the white collar industries, maybe it's time to do away with most of them and start up unions for the office drones who now do the work of three or four for the price of one.
                Take a look at the Federal Emplyee union to see how that has worked. Massive bureaucratic bloat.
                Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                  Union guys had a certain mindset. I worked for some companies that wanted to work 40 hours a week but wanted four days at ten hours a day. The Union guys refused the job as they considered any work after eight hours to be overtime. I took it as a three day weekend appealed to me!

                  Pruitt
                  Two of my neighbors work four ten hour days. Every weekend is a three day weekend for them, every three day weekend for the rest of us is a four day weekend for them.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    The unions have a long history of resisting change, including that brought about by new technology.

                    For many years after diesels took over the railroads, the union insisted on maintaining a fireman position.

                    Since workers are not being abused and overworked, except in the white collar industries, maybe it's time to do away with most of them and start up unions for the office drones who now do the work of three or four for the price of one.
                    Not to mention brakemen (set the brakes before air brakes were invented), flagmen, and conductors, along with the caboose, among other things.

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                    • #55
                      Remember all those assholes in High School that didn't pay attention and had no ambition to make good for themselves? Some even dropped out because they were such worthless lowlives. Well, guess what? They are working at a career in MacDonald's and need to make more money to raise their six kids. The Democratic libs want to increase their wages at your expense, and now this gives them more strength. I hope the fast food joints go belly up so the lowlives can get paid for picking up aluminum cans on the side of the road.
                      My worst jump story:
                      My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                      As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                      No lie.

                      ~
                      "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                      -2 Commando Jumpmaster

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                      • #56
                        They can always be a greeter at Costco...

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                          Union guys had a certain mindset. I worked for some companies that wanted to work 40 hours a week but wanted four days at ten hours a day. The Union guys refused the job as they considered any work after eight hours to be overtime. I took it as a three day weekend appealed to me!

                          Pruitt
                          A lot of our gangs on the railroad worked 4 10's. The union worked with the company for it.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by jeffdoorgunnr View Post
                            A lot of our gangs on the railroad worked 4 10's. The union worked with the company for it.

                            I find it really weird that medical workers have such strange shifts.

                            http://www.thejournal.ie/junior-medi...61312-Jan2013/

                            Other demands are less easily explicable. Residents in America are expected to spend up to 80 hours a week in the hospital and endure single shifts that routinely last up to 28 hoursówith such workdays required about four times a month, on average. (Some licensed physicians continue to work similar schedules even after residency but, importantly, only because they choose to do so. The vast majority of doctors work fewer than 60 hours a week after they complete their training.) Overall, residents typically work more than twice as many hours annually as their peers in other white-collar professions, such as attorneys in corporate law firmsóa grueling schedule that potentially puts both caregivers and patients at risk. In Europe, by contrast, residents are subject to a maximum workweek of 48 hours, without apparent harm to patient care or the educational component of residencies.

                            https://www.theatlantic.com/business...edules/516639/

                            Now I'd like them to have a more gentle work cycle. I really want the team that does my next heart surgery to be on their game... Don't you? We really need to fix this.

                            Oh and nurses need to get off the crazy shifts and get decent working hours.

                            Seems like Major Frank Burns designed our medical system...
                            Credo quia absurdum.


                            Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                              Not to mention brakemen (set the brakes before air brakes were invented), flagmen, and conductors, along with the caboose, among other things.
                              Conductors live on, but as the second guy in the cab who is in charge of coms and paperwork, since the venerable caboose was replaced by the ETD.
                              Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
                                I find it really weird that medical workers have such strange shifts.

                                http://www.thejournal.ie/junior-medi...61312-Jan2013/

                                Other demands are less easily explicable. Residents in America are expected to spend up to 80 hours a week in the hospital and endure single shifts that routinely last up to 28 hoursówith such workdays required about four times a month, on average. (Some licensed physicians continue to work similar schedules even after residency but, importantly, only because they choose to do so. The vast majority of doctors work fewer than 60 hours a week after they complete their training.) Overall, residents typically work more than twice as many hours annually as their peers in other white-collar professions, such as attorneys in corporate law firmsóa grueling schedule that potentially puts both caregivers and patients at risk. In Europe, by contrast, residents are subject to a maximum workweek of 48 hours, without apparent harm to patient care or the educational component of residencies.

                                https://www.theatlantic.com/business...edules/516639/

                                Now I'd like them to have a more gentle work cycle. I really want the team that does my next heart surgery to be on their game... Don't you? We really need to fix this.

                                Oh and nurses need to get off the crazy shifts and get decent working hours.

                                Seems like Major Frank Burns designed our medical system...
                                Nursing is round-the clock, like many other jobs, so shift work is the norm.

                                Residents are still in training, so more is required of them. If you want to feel worried, take a look at the work schedule of an intern.
                                Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                                Comment

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