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  • #16
    Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
    "Fake history" I'm afraid,

    although a quite well established myth in the US apparently.

    The fort at Eben Emael ( it was a number of forts in fact, spread out over 75ha) was built by 7 different Belgian companies from 1932 onward, and was still ongoing by 1940.

    Design is attributed to Belgian army engineers, no Germans involved. (Although German private companies did work on the nearby Albert Canal.)



    http://www.fort-eben-emael.be/nl/ove...denis/het-fort
    Somewhere, I still have a thick file sent to me by the Belgian military attache in Washington DC which disagrees with your version is multiple aspects.
    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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    • #17
      Back to the subject: I sincerely hope that the Pentagon Cloud works a whole lot better than my version did.

      Frankly, the Pentagon would be far better served by storing their data at an NSA facility. The Cloud can be hacked.
      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        ..thick file sent to me by the Belgian military attache
        By all means quote from it, which one was it ?

        There's an recorded act by Belgian parlaiment designating 7 Belgian construction firms to build the fort.

        The the project was stated to be partially intended to alleviate high unemployment in the region, so certain conditions were imposed on companies bidding for the contract.

        Also France subsidized part of it, which makes the use of German subcontractors higly unlikely, but obviously not impossible.

        At any rate there's no evidence for or positive reference to it in any Flemish or French sources, best as I have been able to figure out, the source of the story is the History Channel

        Here's a report by one of your own btw, with a good bibliography.

        http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a428903.pdf

        Internet references are error prone, poorly written, or shortened versions of James E. Mrazek’s book The Fall of Eben Emael and therefore not used in this thesis. The only exception is the web site maintained by the Fort Eben Emael preservation society.
        Which is the one I linked above.

        So you see, if you manage to find that thick file, and make your point, you'll be noted as a source in future historical works on the subject.
        Last edited by Snowygerry; 09 May 18, 04:21.
        High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.
        Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Co.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
          By all means quote from it, which one was it ?

          There's an recorded act by Belgian parlaiment designating 7 Belgian construction firms to build the fort.

          The the project was stated to be partially intended to alleviate high unemployment in the region, so certain conditions were imposed on companies bidding for the contract.

          Also France subsidized part of it, which makes the use of German subcontractors higly unlikely, but obviously not impossible.

          At any rate there's no evidence for or positive reference to it in any Flemish or French sources, best as I have been able to figure out, the source of the story is the History Channel

          Here's a report by one of your own btw, with a good bibliography.

          http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a428903.pdf



          Which is the one I linked above.

          So you see, if you manage to find that thick file, and make your point, you'll be noted as a source in future historical works on the subject.
          That concerns you far more than it concerns me. Been to the fort itself, toured it and listened to the information put out as well as my own research. Just FYI, I contacted the Belgian attache to settle an argument I was having with Tom Clancy about fortresses in general, and both Eban Emael and the Linie Maginot in particular, and I won. He, after all, and never been to any of them and visiting fortifications was one of my major passions when I was there.

          Meantime, fromSilent Blitzkrieg: the Battle of Fort Eben Emael:
          Hitler had work for Student. “Do you know Eben Emael?” he asked. “Of course,” said Student. There had been much written about the place, and indeed, the Germans had access to many details about the fortress since two German contractors had been involved in its construction.
          http://warfarehistorynetwork.com/dai...rt-eben-emael/

          You might enjoy the book, I did, but by all means you should visit and see what mistakes the Belgians made for yourself. While you're doing all that, I'll take what time I can from the remodeling and construction projects on my plate this summer and keep an eye out for the file. The discussion with the Belgian Colonel was interesting, too, BTW - he fully acknowledged Belgium's shortcomings in their defensive planning, along with the peculiar SOP's in place that led to no firing mechanisms for the main batteries and no armorer or keys in the fort when attack started!(he was two miles away - the officers enjoyed local billeting in the nearest town!!) Hard to believe that any military would adopt such a lax posture, which is why history is so interesting.

          Of, incidentally, the only fortress attacked was Eban Emael, "Granite" - the remaining three objectives were key bridges which turned out to be harder than the Germans anticipated. Hard to believe the largest fortress in Europe was an easier target than three bridges, right?
          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            That concerns you far more than it concerns me. Been to the fort itself, toured it and listened to the information put out as well as my own research. Just FYI, I contacted the Belgian attache to settle an argument I was having with Tom Clancy about fortresses in general, and both Eban Emael and the Linie Maginot in particular, and I won. He, after all, and never been to any of them and visiting fortifications was one of my major passions when I was there.
            But surely you remember his name ? The list of Belgian military attacheés in Washington is not endless, there are only one or two at any given time, and most all are retired military officers ?

            Given your mention of Clancy it was in the 80s then ?

            Meantime, from Silent Blitzkrieg: the Battle of Fort Eben Emael:

            http://warfarehistorynetwork.com/dai...rt-eben-emael/
            Yes - I found a number of references like that, but only in romantic US history, no footnotes, no source, which leads me (and most others) to the conclusion it is a myth.

            ..keep an eye out for the file.
            Please do, more interesting than the file would be the name though, so it can be verified.

            The discussion with the Belgian Colonel was interesting, too, BTW - he fully acknowledged Belgium's shortcomings in their defensive planning, ..
            No joke

            Having a football field atop the main fortification for instance was no doubt beneficial for the morale of the garrison, but turned out to be a perfect landing ground for the gliders, a mine field and some basic obstacles, might have served better.

            Also finsihing construction of a fort before the attack is at all times recommended..

            switching from being allied to being neutral halfway through didn't help since it ended the French subsidies, from there on it became a race against time to acquire the needed funds, often against political opposition.

            But as stated - no evidence for German contractors being involved, on the contrary, in the official act by Belgian parlement only Belgian contractors, and French subsidies, are mentioned.



            ..you should visit and see..
            Visit the fort you mean ?

            I did on several occasions, they are aware of this particular story often mentioned by US American visitors in so far they specifically mention it on their website.

            De zogenaamde constructie van het fort door Duitse firma’s is een fabeltje en werd waarschijnlijk ingegeven door de werkzaamheden van deze buitenlandse firma’s aan het nabijgelegen Albertkanaal in dezelfde periode.
            "The so called construction of the fort by German firms is a myth (fable) and presumably arose on account of foreign firms working on the nearby Albert canal in the same period."

            http://www.fort-eben-emael.be/nl/ove...denis/het-fort

            That's the Eben Emael Preservation Society there, these people spend a considerable part of their lifetime studying and restoring it,

            some of them are historians, other volunteers, there used to be veterans but they're mostly gone now,

            I'm sure they'd be willing to consider new evidence on the subject.
            Last edited by Snowygerry; 14 May 18, 03:49.
            High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.
            Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Co.

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            • #21
              Of the companies vying for the cloud contract, I pray Google does not get it.

              Recently a dozen or so employees from Google quit over the company's involvement in an artificial intelligence drone program for the Pentagon called Project Maven.

              I wouldn't trust anyone from Google to work on anything for the US military.



              "Stand for the flag ~ Kneel for the fallen"

              "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." ~ Bruce Lee

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