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  • Originally posted by pamak View Post
    What case closed?

    Are you aware that he simply copied the statements from the intelligence agencies that were proven wrong?
    They were proved to be correct : why was Saddam preventing UN inspectors to do their job ?

    Comment


    • John Edwards (DNC) February 24 2002 : "I think Iraq is the most serious and imminent threat to our country " .


      That Saddam had WMD was also the opinion of

      Bill Clinton

      Hillary Clinton

      Al Gore

      John Kerry

      Levin (Michigan )

      Daschle (S Dakota )

      CW are WMD.Saddam had CW, thus he had WMD.

      Case closed .

      Comment


      • Originally posted by ljadw View Post
        Usual attempt of deflection : we are not talking about the Iraq war, but about the invasion of Iraq .
        Are you retarded?
        "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
        - Benjamin Franklin

        The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by ljadw View Post
          John Edwards (DNC) February 24 2002 : "I think Iraq is the most serious and imminent threat to our country " .


          That Saddam had WMD was also the opinion of

          Bill Clinton

          Hillary Clinton

          Al Gore

          John Kerry

          Levin (Michigan )

          Daschle (S Dakota )

          CW are WMD.Saddam had CW, thus he had WMD.

          Case closed .
          Lol the hypocrisy. You trust the opinion of the Clintons and Al Gore now? They all believe in global warming as well, is that case closed too? Of course not their entire agenda revolves around control and the Iraq war and global warming are two methods in global control.
          "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
          - Benjamin Franklin

          The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
            Are you retarded?
            In the old days the Deep State propagandists were better .

            THEY knew the difference of the Iraq invasion and the war in Iraq .

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ljadw View Post
              They were proved to be correct : why was Saddam preventing UN inspectors to do their job ?
              No they were not!

              The only thing close to WMD they found was some old pre-1991 (Desert Storm) produced shells which were abandoned corroded and which according to the experts could not be used. If I recall well some of them were used as IEDS. The fact that Saddam was playing a cat and mouse game is true. But he also started to cooperate when pressure was built and Hans Blix, the Swedish chief UN inspector, was able to show progress in doing his job. Of course, the moment we saw meaningful progress, Blix became the target of harsh criticism from the US administration and press. Then the Bush administration went ballistic demanding unreasonable things, such as the free overflight of a U2 over Iraq supposedly (I assume) to investigate the WMD. What leader would have granted such access at a time when American troops were gathering near the borders? I recall that the moment I heard this, I was sure that Bush was just creating a pretext to invade Iraq.

              and here are part from a copy of the report from the UN chief inspector to the Security Council on 14 Feb 2003

              https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...unitednations1
              Last edited by pamak; 07 Apr 18, 13:32.
              My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

              Comment


              • Saddam had WMD ,otherwise he would not have stopped the UN inspectors .

                The report of Blix does not prove that Saddam had no WMD . The attitude of Saddam proved that he had such weapons . If Saddam had nothing to hide, why was he preventing inspections ?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by ljadw View Post
                  Saddam had WMD ,otherwise he would not have stopped the UN inspectors .

                  The report of Blix does not prove that Saddam had no WMD . The attitude of Saddam proved that he had such weapons . If Saddam had nothing to hide, why was he preventing inspections ?
                  You did not read the link with the UN chief inspector report to the Security Council I posted, did you?

                  Since we arrived in Iraq, we have conducted more than 400 inspections covering more than 300 sites. All inspections were performed without notice, and access was almost always provided promptly. In no case have we seen convincing evidence that the Iraqi side knew in advance that the inspectors were coming.

                  The inspections have taken place throughout Iraq at industrial sites, ammunition depots, research centres, universities, presidential sites, mobile laboratories, private houses, missile production facilities, military camps and agricultural sites.
                  What we learned after the occupation of Iraq was that in the beginning Saddam was willing to leave the question of if he had WMD open and vague. The motive was to discourage any plans of attacking Iraq. However, when pressure built on, he was forced to accommodate the inspectors...
                  My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                  Comment


                  • See the NYT : article from C.J.Childers (October 14 2014) :the secret casualties of Iraq's abandoned Chemical Weapons .

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ljadw View Post
                      See the NYT : article from C.J.Childers (October 14 2014) :the secret casualties of Iraq's abandoned Chemical Weapons .
                      ohh ABANDONED Chemical weapons..

                      Just as I said


                      In fact, again, if you take some time to read the link, you will see that it was common knowledge that such stocks existed


                      We have now commenced the process of destroying approximately 50 litres of mustard gas declared by Iraq that was being kept under UNMOVIC seal at the Muthanna site.
                      It was also known that there were many chemical sites and related records that were destroyed a decade ago during the operation desert storm, and that the so called "unaccounted weapons" did not necessarily show an Iraqi attempt to hide something. It could just as easily be the result of losing archives that made difficult to monitor all the pre desert storm stocks

                      Again from the link'

                      To take an example, a document, which Iraq provided, suggested to us that some 1,000 tonnes of chemical agent were "unaccounted for". One must not jump to the conclusion that they exist.
                      My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                      Comment


                      • and from your source of the NYT article which you did not bother to provide


                        https://www.webcitation.org/6TVYqgsp...=top-news&_r=1



                        The Secret Casualties of Iraq’s Abandoned Chemical Weapons

                        By C. J. CHIVERS OCT. 14, 2014


                        The discoveries of these chemical weapons did not support the government’s invasion rationale.
                        and


                        All had been manufactured before 1991, participants said. Filthy, rusty or corroded, a large fraction of them could not be readily identified as chemical weapons at all. Some were empty, though many of them still contained potent mustard agent or residual sarin. Most could not have been used as designed, and when they ruptured dispersed the chemical agents over a limited area, according to those who collected the majority of them.

                        In case after case, participants said, analysis of these warheads and shells reaffirmed intelligence failures. First, the American government did not find what it had been looking for at the war’s outset, then it failed to prepare its troops and medical corps for the aged weapons it did find.
                        My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                        Comment


                        • By the way, ljadw...

                          if you notice from the time stamps of your post about the NYT article from C.J.Childers (October 14 2014) :the secret casualties of Iraq's abandoned Chemical Weapons .
                          and my response showing what the author of the article actually said about the findings and the justification of the invasion, it took me about 10 minutes.

                          Granted, I do not have a morning shift which means that since I am not at work, I have more time to investigate things. Still, all that was needed was about 10 minutes. Do not tell me that you could not spare ten minutes to double check the article to make sure that you do not misrepresent it! Plus, it is Saturday night in Belgium now, and I guess most probably you are not at work...
                          Last edited by pamak; 07 Apr 18, 15:43.
                          My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by ljadw View Post
                            Saddam had WMD ,otherwise he would not have stopped the UN inspectors .

                            The report of Blix does not prove that Saddam had no WMD . The attitude of Saddam proved that he had such weapons . If Saddam had nothing to hide, why was he preventing inspections ?
                            It's far more likely that Saddam thought he had WMD and his generals and subordinates were telling him he did, even though they knew different. After all, in a regime like Saddam's, the bearer of bad news is likely to be shot...

                            This would then translate into many intelligence agencies reporting he has them but not being able to verify that fact. At the same time, the inspectors are getting the same thing, so they are looking for stuff that doesn't exist and instead assume Saddam is playing a shell game and moving them about to keep them hidden. After all, other despots have done similar stuff.

                            The result is people were wrong but it still cost Saddam his rule because they thought he had what he didn't have.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                              It's far more likely that Saddam thought he had WMD and his generals and subordinates were telling him he did, even though they knew different. After all, in a regime like Saddam's, the bearer of bad news is likely to be shot...

                              This would then translate into many intelligence agencies reporting he has them but not being able to verify that fact. At the same time, the inspectors are getting the same thing, so they are looking for stuff that doesn't exist and instead assume Saddam is playing a shell game and moving them about to keep them hidden. After all, other despots have done similar stuff.

                              The result is people were wrong but it still cost Saddam his rule because they thought he had what he didn't have.

                              Bold mine...

                              Nothing of that sort came out of the many investigations that were carried after the invasion. On the contrary, the picture that came out was that Saddam knew that he did not have WMD but in the beginning wanted to be vague to deter any ideas of invading Iraq. Still, when the pressure was built and war seemed imminent, he decided to cooperate with the inspectors
                              My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by pamak View Post
                                Bold mine...

                                Nothing of that sort came out of the many investigations that were carried after the invasion. On the contrary, the picture that came out was that Saddam knew that he did not have WMD but in the beginning wanted to be vague to deter any ideas of invading Iraq. Still, when the pressure was built and war seemed imminent, he decided to cooperate with the inspectors
                                But, at the time it was one view held, even if not widely.

                                Saddam did not know there were no stockpiles
                                According to The Guardian in late 2003, British officials in Whitehall began circulating a theory that Saddam Hussein and his senior advisers "may have been hoodwinked" by lower-ranking officers "into believing that Iraq really did possess weapons of mass destruction." And as most of the informers for British intelligence were the same high-level advisers close to Saddam, the British were also fooled. The paper adds that this hypothesis "is open to the interpretation that the government is searching for an excuse, however implausible, for failure to discover any WMD in Iraq." Commenting on the findings of the Butler intelligence review six months later, USA Today reported that Britain's Secret Intelligence Service had "shockingly few reliable human sources inside Saddam's regime."
                                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WMD_co...vasion_of_Iraq

                                There was considerable speculation at the time what I suggested might be the case. But, it was just one conjecture of many floating around. I'd say it is normal and wise on the part of Generals and intelligence agencies to assume the worst case is the true case and act accordingly. After all, if you take the best case scenario, it might well get broken off in your posterior.

                                Comment

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