Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Trump administration sues California over federal land sales

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    and here is the chart with poverty rates of states based on the US Census which from what I recall excludes housing expenses because you cannot make comparisons among states that have huge differences in population densities...



    https://www.census.gov/search-result...=web&cssp=SERP


    California: 14.3%

    Texas: 15.6%

    Click where it says "By State " the "Chart" icon


    So much for the pro business policies that supposedly benefit also workers...
    My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

    Comment


    • #32
      Ah, but look at the rate over time. Arizona and Texas are declining while California is increasing.



      Worse, California is seeing a population change the Left probably likes but probably isn't helping things:





      That is, the population in California that is growing most is illegal immigrants.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
        Ah, but look at the rate over time. Arizona and Texas are declining while California is increasing.



        Worse, California is seeing a population change the Left probably likes but probably isn't helping things:





        That is, the population in California that is growing most is illegal immigrants.
        Sorry, but when your graphs picks a period of housing crisis which hit particularly hard California exactly because it had a very developed housing market it is no wonder that you see the poverty trend you mention. And still, even then Texas and most "right to work" red states are s consistently worse than California regarding poverty even though most such states (with the exception of Texas) do not have the high percentage of poor Latino immigrants that California has received.

        As for the population growth and decline, this is a GOOD thing for California. If this trend continues, your state AZ and Texas will soon experience the results of increasing their population density, and I bet that this will negatively affect their poorest and even middle-class residents, who will have to spend an increasing percentage of their earnings for renting and it will be more difficult for them to buy a house and actually get the benefits of a housing boom....
        Last edited by pamak; 04 Apr 18, 05:28.
        My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

        Comment


        • #34
          .
          Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

          Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
            I could be wrong, too.

            But political speculation aside, the bill is literally going to come due sooner or later.
            You are right about the bill coming due sooner or later.
            As I said, Illinois tried to get out of that bill by simply not paying the retired teachers what they had been promised. The Illinois Supreme Court shot that down pretty quickly. Amusingly, the State's argued to the Supreme Court that they shouldn't have to pay the full amount of the teacher's pension because the State was crunched for money. (a crunch of their own creation)
            Another way they are dealing with the problem is delaying payment on medical bills for more than a year. A private insurance company couldn't get away with that.

            The fact that the democrat controlled state of Illinois was so willing to try and betray its strongest supporters (teacher's unions) puts us all on notice that they will happily betray the rest of us too.

            And while dems are primarily to blame for our problem here, republicans helped screw things up too.
            Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

            Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
              You are right about the bill coming due sooner or later.
              As I said, Illinois tried to get out of that bill by simply not paying the retired teachers what they had been promised. The Illinois Supreme Court shot that down pretty quickly. Amusingly, the State's argued to the Supreme Court that they shouldn't have to pay the full amount of the teacher's pension because the State was crunched for money. (a crunch of their own creation)
              Another way they are dealing with the problem is delaying payment on medical bills for more than a year. A private insurance company couldn't get away with that.

              The fact that the democrat controlled state of Illinois was so willing to try and betray its strongest supporters (teacher's unions) puts us all on notice that they will happily betray the rest of us too.

              And while dems are primarily to blame for our problem here, republicans helped screw things up too.
              I do not understand why you are surprised that the teachers still support the democrats. Even if the latter could implement a law that will shortchange the retirees, what EXACTLY is the better deal that the republicans offer? I am talking from the teachers' point of view: Is it the fact that the teachers will not have powerful unions to negotiate salaries and benefit for all those teachers who still have many years ahead of them more appealing? Are republicans proposing to pay in full current liabilities for retirement plans by cutting the salaries and retirement plans of younger teachers? Because if this is the plan, I am sure it will not be popular among those affected teachers. And of course, the affected teachers have a say (and vote) to affect union decisions....
              My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by pamak View Post
                I do not understand why you are surprised that the teachers still support the democrats. Even if the latter could implement a law that will shortchange the retirees, what EXACTLY is the better deal that the republicans offer? I am talking from the teachers' point of view: Is it the fact that the teachers will not have powerful unions to negotiate salaries and benefit for all those teachers who still have many years ahead of them more appealing? Are republicans proposing to pay in full current liabilities for retirement plans by cutting the salaries and retirement plans of younger teachers? Because if this is the plan, I am sure it will not be popular among those affected teachers. And of course, the affected teachers have a say (and vote) to affect union decisions....



                They don't have to make promises to pay the pensions, as the pensions are a recognized right under the Illinois Constitution.
                Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
                  They don't have to make promises to pay the pensions, as the pensions are a recognized right under the Illinois Constitution.
                  Yes, they can have recognized rights under its Constitution. When there is not enough money what will happen? Are they going to print and offer copies of the Constitution to the retirees? Anyway, what I try to understand is what exactly do republicans offer to the teachers that should earn their support? What is their solution?
                  My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                    I don't hunt. Or camp.

                    And in Texas you hunt on private land.

                    I didn't say it was a good idea, just that they could. If we ever hit a major financial crisis with the national debt, I expect we would, at least in part.
                    no private land to hunt on it would all be 1 acre lots in Washington.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by pamak View Post
                      Yes, they can have recognized rights under its Constitution. When there is not enough money what will happen? Are they going to print and offer copies of the Constitution to the retirees? Anyway, what I try to understand is what exactly do republicans offer to the teachers that should earn their support? What is their solution?

                      I never said that republicans deserved their support.
                      I did find it odd that the teacher's unions continued to support the very politicians who had just tried to betray them and financially destroy those who were getting a pension.

                      Teacher's unions give Illinois dems millions every year, and in return for those campaign contributions they reasonably expect that those politicians will protect the teacher's interests. Not only did the politicians fail to protect those interests they tried to cause great harm to those teachers.
                      Normal people would wonder whether they were getting anything out of such a relationship, the teacher's unions did not.

                      Maybe the republicans offered nothing, but at least they weren't the ones who just attempted to massively betray the teachers.

                      At no point am I saying anything bad about teachers or good about republicans in illinois
                      Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                      Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by pamak View Post
                        It does not work the way you present it. The issue is similar to when people try to argue that social security is broke. This is good rhetoric for those who want to privatize it, but the truth is different. In any case, there is a reason the US bonds are still attractive despite these supposedly overwhelming liablities. Market KNOWS when a country or a state is in trouble...

                        Now see what is happening with California's bonds...

                        https://www.forbes.com/sites/michael.../#53d37b6650ad


                        In other words, the markets evaluate California debt as posing lower risk that the US debt...
                        This isn't so simple. California municipal bonds vary in quality. A good chunk of them are still in the BBB+ range or worse making them nearly or actually "junk" bonds. There are some that are good investments, that's true. But it largely depends on the municipality you're talking about.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
                          I never said that republicans deserved their support.
                          I did find it odd that the teacher's unions continued to support the very politicians who had just tried to betray them and financially destroy those who were getting a pension.

                          Teacher's unions give Illinois dems millions every year, and in return for those campaign contributions they reasonably expect that those politicians will protect the teacher's interests. Not only did the politicians fail to protect those interests they tried to cause great harm to those teachers.
                          Normal people would wonder whether they were getting anything out of such a relationship, the teacher's unions did not.

                          Maybe the republicans offered nothing, but at least they weren't the ones who just attempted to massively betray the teachers.

                          At no point am I saying anything bad about teachers or good about republicans in illinois
                          Bold mine...

                          and the point i made was that republicans did not 'betray" the teachers simply because they were not in power. Still, this is not reason for a teacher to choose them over the democrats because the republicans have a consistent anti-union policy and an agenda aiming at reducing the huge benefits teachers receive (according to the republican rhetoric). And it has happened in every state in which republicans got the opportunity to weaken the bargaining power of the teacher unions. So, regardless of what you think about the unions themselves , my point is that i do not find it strange that they continue to support the democrats even after the 'betrayal." Some times people have to choose between the lesser of two evils...
                          My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                            This isn't so simple. California municipal bonds vary in quality. A good chunk of them are still in the BBB+ range or worse making them nearly or actually "junk" bonds. There are some that are good investments, that's true. But it largely depends on the municipality you're talking about.
                            Municipal bonds is just ONE type of bonds, and obviously the municipal finances affect their rating. This is not what we are talking about...
                            My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by pamak View Post
                              Yes, they can have recognized rights under its Constitution. When there is not enough money what will happen? Are they going to print and offer copies of the Constitution to the retirees? Anyway, what I try to understand is what exactly do republicans offer to the teachers that should earn their support? What is their solution?
                              Raise taxes to come up with the amount, or cut state spending elsewhere to come up with it, or a combination of the two.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by pamak View Post
                                Yes, they can have recognized rights under its Constitution. When there is not enough money what will happen? Are they going to print and offer copies of the Constitution to the retirees? Anyway, what I try to understand is what exactly do republicans offer to the teachers that should earn their support? What is their solution?


                                I think that I failed to make it clear that the Illinois State Constitution explicitly recognizes pension rights as property rights.
                                I doubt many other constitutions do so.
                                That means the State can't get out of paying them without an agreement from the pension holders.
                                The State's only options are to cut spending, which it will not do, or raise taxes, which it does frequently enough that we are losing population.
                                Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                                Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                                Comment

                                Latest Topics

                                Collapse

                                Working...
                                X