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Trump administration sues California over federal land sales

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  • Trump administration sues California over federal land sales

    SACRAMENTO, Calif. — The Trump administration is suing California over a law that aims to give the state power to override the sale of federal lands.
    The U.S. Department of Justice filed the lawsuit Monday. It's the latest battle between President Donald Trump and the nation's most populous state, where Democrats have tried aggressively to thwart the president's agenda.
    California's law gives the state the first right to purchase federal lands or to arrange for a specific buyer. Lawmakers passed it in September out of concern the Trump administration would allow more logging, oil drilling or development.
    The Justice Department also sued California last month over laws that restrict cooperation with federal immigration authorities.
    Lt. Gov. Gavin Newsom, a member of the lands commission, says the Trump is attacking California's way of life.


    Think this will make for an interesting Con law case.

    I can see the rights of the Government to sell land but once it gives up ownership do the states have a say in how public land is used.

    I could see this being easily handled through zoning stuff but think it will be interesting to see how this plays out


    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/tr...les/ar-AAvoe8j

  • #2
    This is just another move by California to try and disobey existing federal laws. They want all of the benefits, but none of the responsibility.
    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      This is just another move by California to try and disobey existing federal laws. They want all of the benefits, but none of the responsibility.
      well actually that incorrect if the Feds release title then it comes under CA jurisdiction.

      So I see it as an attempt to limit how land is used within the state which is as I said a zoning thing.

      But lets suppose govt sell land for x purpose CA might not have to allow the land to be used for whatever purpose retro active zone usually is not allowed.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        This is just another move by California to try and disobey existing federal laws. They want all of the benefits, but none of the responsibility.
        well that is true of everyone in the west look at where people build homes and how much money is spent trying to protect them from fires.

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        • #5
          The California way of life has lead to the highest geographically adjusted poverty rate in the U.S. It is a poster child for segregation where the coastal areas are relatively well off while the interior has poverty rates way above average. The decisions in this state are being made by those who are affected by immigration, environmental, infrastructure, and other critical policies. Cost of living factors such as housing and energy cost have little effect on the upper middle class and above while immigration and environmental regulations suppress the incomes of those not engaged in intellectual jobs and even reduce the availability of jobs in many cases. The coastal elites in California have simply divorced themselves from the consideration of the practical necessities of life because wealth enables them to do so.

          Like everything else Trump does this is not about what it appears to be about. He seems to be dimly aware of what the elites refuse to acknowledge which is a country coming apart along social economic lines not the elusion of racism, xenophobia, sexism, and hatred that Obama and the Democrats cynically used to gain power.
          We hunt the hunters

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          • #6
            California could legally say the state has right to first offer on federal land for sale and can buy it at fair market value before private interests do. Seems kind of heavy handed and unfair, but they could do that.

            Land sold to private interests would be subject to the same sort of zoning and other laws regarding land that California applies to other property, but they couldn't make special rules that just apply to newly sold land outside that. That would constitute unequal protection and would be illegal.

            It would also be illegal for the state to arrange sale to a specific private buyer in favor over all other buyers. Again, that is unequal protections and the state using force of law to play favorites. That too is illegal.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
              California could legally say the state has right to first offer on federal land for sale and can buy it at fair market value before private interests do. Seems kind of heavy handed and unfair, but they could do that.

              Land sold to private interests would be subject to the same sort of zoning and other laws regarding land that California applies to other property, but they couldn't make special rules that just apply to newly sold land outside that. That would constitute unequal protection and would be illegal.

              It would also be illegal for the state to arrange sale to a specific private buyer in favor over all other buyers. Again, that is unequal protections and the state using force of law to play favorites. That too is illegal.
              Want to bet a quarter that the last bit is going to be the reality of the matter???
              Credo quia absurdum.


              Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

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              • #8
                California to me is Disneyland, it's economy is make believe at least to the extent that Mark Zuckerberg is the richest citizen. Having long ignored the necessary for the aesthetic or entertaining it's future is questionable. This is just one more case of planting flowers while ignoring the wheat.
                We hunt the hunters

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
                  California to me is Disneyland, it's economy is make believe at least to the extent that Mark Zuckerberg is the richest citizen. Having long ignored the necessary for the aesthetic or entertaining it's future is questionable. This is just one more case of planting flowers while ignoring the wheat.
                  Well, California is rated the worst place for judicial decisions ahead of Florida (Illinois, New York, and New Jersey rate up there too) who used to be the worst. Cali has turned into a true Turd World Nation today.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by craven View Post
                    Think this will make for an interesting Con law case.

                    I can see the rights of the Government to sell land but once it gives up ownership do the states have a say in how public land is used.
                    No. If the Feds sell land to a private party, states have no say whatsoever.

                    This has been tried before in the 90s during the post-Cold War base closures and disposals.
                    Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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                    • #11
                      Government can't pick and choose which private party or person they'll sell land to. They have to take all comers. There are some exceptions, like they can exclude parties that are not making good faith or serious bids for example. The BLM started doing this with many environmental groups because they were just bidding to mess up the process, as an example.

                      Generally though, the government must take all bidders on a land sale.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                        Government can't pick and choose which private party or person they'll sell land to. They have to take all comers. There are some exceptions, like they can exclude parties that are not making good faith or serious bids for example. The BLM started doing this with many environmental groups because they were just bidding to mess up the process, as an example.

                        Generally though, the government must take all bidders on a land sale.
                        True, but they do not have to give preference to, nor gain approval of, the state in which the property is located.
                        Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by craven View Post
                          well actually that incorrect if the Feds release title then it comes under CA jurisdiction.

                          So I see it as an attempt to limit how land is used within the state which is as I said a zoning thing.

                          But lets suppose govt sell land for x purpose CA might not have to allow the land to be used for whatever purpose retro active zone usually is not allowed.
                          California is attempting to control how the sales take place, as noted in the OP. As for California buying the land themselves, they're broke, remember? And facing massive cuts in Federal aid.
                          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            California is attempting to control how the sales take place, as noted in the OP. As for California buying the land themselves, they're broke, remember? And facing massive cuts in Federal aid.
                            We are broke?

                            It seems you are not are not aware that CA with Brown has managed to get out of the woods and balance its budget.

                            https://ballotpedia.org/State_debt

                            Check state debt per capita...which by the way does not give the full picture since CA's earnings per capita are much higher compared to that of most other states.

                            And since your profile says you are in Colorado...

                            Colorado: Total debt $17,200,428,000 State debt per capita :$3,157

                            California: Total debt $151,715,007,000 State debt per capita :$3,891

                            and let's see the per capita personal income of our states

                            https://www.statista.com/statistics/...rsonal-income/

                            Colorado: 52059$

                            California: 55987$

                            So, who is broke again?

                            PS All the above are for 2016. In 2017 the difference of our states' earnings per capita is even more
                            Last edited by pamak; 03 Apr 18, 08:41.
                            My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by pamak View Post
                              We are broke?

                              It seems you are not are not aware that CA with Brown has managed to get out of the woods and balance its budget.

                              https://ballotpedia.org/State_debt

                              Check state debt per capita...which by the way does not give the full picture since CA's earnings per capita are much higher compared to that of most other states.

                              And since your profile says you are in Colorado...

                              Colorado: Total debt $17,200,428,000 State debt per capita :$3,157

                              California: Total debt $151,715,007,000 State debt per capita :$3,891

                              and let's see the per capita personal income of our states

                              https://www.statista.com/statistics/...rsonal-income/

                              Colorado: 52059$

                              California: 55987$

                              So, who is broke again?


                              California is broke.
                              They have an enormous unfunded pension debt.


                              These falling dominoes have taken CalPERS from a surplus of $33 billion in 1999 to a pension debt of more than $138 billion in just 17 years. CalSTRS also had a surplus in 1999. The debt numbers got worse in 2017, but won’t be published officially until next year

                              http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/califo...192645574.html



                              If california had really gotten out of the woods, they would have figured out a way to fund pension debt rather than pretend it doesn't exist.

                              California is a wealthy state, but the failure to address the pension problem is going to haunt it.
                              Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                              Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

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