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Douglas school cop 'never went in' during the shooting. There were other failures, to

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  • Douglas school cop 'never went in' during the shooting. There were other failures, to

    And he is gone!
    The resource officer waited outside the building where the shooter was killing high schoolers for four minutes.....

    MIAMI —
    MIAMI — Eight days after mass shooter Nikolas Cruz murdered 17 people inside Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, Broward's top cop on Thursday revealed a stunning series of failures by the sheriff’s department.

    A school campus cop heard the gunfire, rushed to the building but never went inside – instead waiting outside for another four agonizing minutes as Cruz continued the slaughter.

    And long before Cruz embarked on the worst school shooting in Florida history, Broward Sheriff’s Office deputies had multiple warnings that the 19-year-old was a violent threat and a potential school shooter, according to records released Thursday.
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/do...rNW?li=BBnb7Kz
    Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
    Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

  • #2
    That nutjob really got a free pass to do what he did. Sigh. So many chances to stop him, and none taken.
    Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the cheesemakers

    That's right bitches. I'm blessed!

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    • #3
      Like this is the first time somebody who has never been under fire acted indecisively or froze. How stupid. This is a military history board. How many times have you come across such actions by persons who have never been in such a real situation before in reading history?

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      • #4
        The deputy was suspended and has now resigned. Local sherif has said that he should have intervened.
        "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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        • #5
          The deputy retired.

          Current doctrine recommends not going in until you have at least three officers.

          This poor guy is going to be armchair quarterbacked by countless Walter Mittys who have never had to ponder taking a handgun up against an AR-15.

          As to the rest of the nonsense, two more pieces of paper would have had no impact upon the incident.
          Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
            The deputy retired.

            Current doctrine recommends not going in until you have at least three officers.

            This poor guy is going to be armchair quarterbacked by countless Walter Mittys who have never had to ponder taking a handgun up against an AR-15.

            As to the rest of the nonsense, two more pieces of paper would have had no impact upon the incident.
            The Sheriff said he should have gone in. I seem to remember you saying once that you would expect officers to not hang around waiting for backup during an attack on a school.
            "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Surrey View Post
              The Sheriff said he should have gone in. I seem to remember you saying once that you would expect officers to not hang around waiting for backup during an attack on a school.
              The Sheriff is an elected official; politicians always take the path of least resistance.

              Our officers carry assault rifles and have plate carriers in their cars. Our agency policy now is that you wait until you have four officers.

              Waiting for backup isn't 'hanging around'. When was the last time you bet your life on a handgun going up against an AR-15?

              Lots of tough talk at times like these, but rarely from people who have ever put their life on the line.

              I don't blame this guy one bit. He was there, he made a choice.
              Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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              • #8
                Won't similar problems arise with armed teachers as has been suggested ?

                Somehow I don't see the average geography teacher turning Bruce Willis one afternoon ?
                High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Rojik View Post
                  That nutjob really got a free pass to do what he did. Sigh. So many chances to stop him, and none taken.
                  No chances to stop him.

                  So someone called in and said he was a school shooter wannabe. So what? It's not a crime.

                  At most an officer would have made contact, ask him something along the lines of 'Are you planning to shoot up a school?" The guy answers 'No.' End of report.

                  They certainly should have done a report for CYA purposes, of course.

                  But you don't going around tossing people in jail in the USA because someone called up the police and said 'he's crazy'.
                  Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
                    Won't similar problems arise with armed teachers as has been suggested ?

                    Somehow I don't see the average geography teacher turning Bruce Willis one afternoon ?
                    Hasn't yet. Somewhere between 5 and 10% of schools now have armed staff.

                    Teachers have rarely committed school shootings. In fact, I can't think of a single case, but since they go back over two hundred years, never say never.

                    But IMO/IME, armed staff is the only viable solution.
                    Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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                    • #11
                      No I don't mean the teachers going psycho themselves, I mean the armed teacher thinking the better of confronting the better armed attacker when the moment comes ?

                      Or to take your policy of "...wait for 3 more officers" - what's the policy for an armed teacher then ?
                      High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
                        No I don't mean the teachers going psycho themselves, I mean the armed teacher thinking the better of confronting the better armed attacker when the moment comes ?

                        Or to take your policy of "...wait for 3 more officers" - what's the policy for an armed teacher then ?
                        The purpose of arming staff is more on the lines of introducing an element of uncertainty.

                        It's not just teachers; office staff, custodians...any employee could be armed.

                        These shooters are looking for soft targets so they can rack up a body count; they do not want to worry about somebody shooting them in the back before they really get started.

                        The principle is that they will target a school that does not have armed staff.

                        Its the same principle with grocery stores: they were the professional robber's target of choice for decades. Until carry permits flourished, and then robberies of grocery stores, especially by pros, plunged.

                        Why?

                        Because the most common person to be carrying concealed is a woman aged 40+.

                        Grocery stores suddenly because a risky proposition. A woman probably wouldn't start shooting if a robbery was in progress, but why take the chance?
                        Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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                        • #13
                          So you are expecting an untrained teacher with a handgun and no body armour to go up against a shooter with an ar15 but wouldn’t expect a trained officer who may well have some body armour?
                          "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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                          • #14
                            Arming teachers and staff is not an answer and would cause more problems. And the teachers, et al, don't want to be armed.

                            As for the deputy who failed in his duty, part of this is on his head. He was there, armed, and refused to act. He could have saved lives. Instead, he was more interested in saving himself.

                            He was a first responder and students died because of him. At least two teachers confronted the gunboy and the deputy failed.
                            We are not now that strength which in old days
                            Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                            Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                            To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
                              Won't similar problems arise with armed teachers as has been suggested ?

                              Somehow I don't see the average geography teacher turning Bruce Willis one afternoon ?
                              Your speaking real. Others some fantasy. I don't see someone semi trained with a pistol going up against a semi-auto rifle with good results. Even trainer LEO's are not know to be that accurate shoots often needing 10 20 or more rounds for one victim.

                              NYPD Sgt. Alexander Mesa fired 39 shots, and Officer Joseph Robinson got off 45 rounds. Murray was hit 14 times, and refused to drop his weapon, reports the New York Daily News.
                              "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                              Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                              you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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