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Pay by the Mile, Not by the Gallon

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  • Karri
    replied
    Originally posted by SRV Ron View Post
    With drones being capable of delivery in many urban areas, the parcel delivery companies could bypass much of the road tax their fleet of delivery trucks would be charged.
    Obviously, they will next tax airspace, and probably oxygen after that

    Leave a comment:


  • SRV Ron
    replied
    This would also be devastating to most business as on line shopping will become commonplace while people stay home to shop.

    With drones being capable of delivery in many urban areas, the parcel delivery companies could bypass much of the road tax their fleet of delivery trucks would be charged.

    Even if they are charged, parcel delivery would be far more efficient tax wise then individuals going out to shop. I could see something like the neighborhood milk truck returning as one could have their grocery needs ordered ahead of time and delivered on a regular basis. (That would be similar to the pull ahead of time ordering at Sams Club or Costco.)

    Of course, the tax would be the quick demise of the Soccer Mon and so many other popular after school activities involving daily transportation of kids to events.

    Leave a comment:


  • SRV Ron
    replied
    For one thing, this would not be done by the toll booth method. Instead, all vehicles would be mandated to be equipped with a billing computer. It would perform like a Smart Meter on your house to charge for energy use. Not only would it track how many miles you are driving, it could be programmed to charge according to the time of the day and the route your are traveling. That way, they can charge you more as they do on the DC toll roads, up to $30 and more, during the weekday rush hour.
    https://wtop.com/dc-transit/2017/12/...s-66-climb-36/

    When that gets mandated, My vehicle will be mostly sitting idle in the driveway being used only when it is not possible to travel by bicycle with the trailer to do necessary shopping or other things nearby.


    After a can run. Plastic bottles are proposed to have a ten cent return added to them soon.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Doctor
    replied
    Originally posted by MarkV View Post
    Hand held nav devices were designed for pedestrians! We get a problem round where I live with truck drivers using car sat nav devices because they're cheaper and then getting routed down very narrow and unsuitable roads and sometimes getting stuck. On a trip to France some years ago my nav device packed up a few miles after leaving the tunnel and I couldn't find anywhere that sold maps until I got to Arras. I had to navigate from the names of WW1 battle areas and road signs and village names. I always carry maps now.

    The first sat nav device I used was in a hire car back in the 90s and it became totally confused in Washington DC
    Our Nuvee was designed for automotive use and we bought the UK navigation chip. It still took us up a very narrow road, up a very steep hill in Bath. When we got to the top of the hill, there was a trash truck blocking the road. So we had to back down the hill...

    Then there was the roundabout adventure it took us on at Heathrow...

    Leave a comment:


  • MarkV
    replied
    Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
    That's how most of the newer toll roads in the Dallas and Houston areas work. Toll rates go up and down with traffic volume. The alternate routes are usually other highways or 4-lane major streets.

    When we visited the UK in 2006, our hand-held Nav device took us on some very odd routes in and around Bath, including a dirt road through what looked like a wheat field. It's always good to have a map handy...
    Hand held nav devices were designed for pedestrians! We get a problem round where I live with truck drivers using car sat nav devices because they're cheaper and then getting routed down very narrow and unsuitable roads and sometimes getting stuck. On a trip to France some years ago my nav device packed up a few miles after leaving the tunnel and I couldn't find anywhere that sold maps until I got to Arras. I had to navigate from the names of WW1 battle areas and road signs and village names. I always carry maps now.

    The first sat nav device I used was in a hire car back in the 90s and it became totally confused in Washington DC

    Leave a comment:


  • The Doctor
    replied
    Originally posted by MarkV View Post
    The system suggested here would vary the charge depending on congestion so someone driving on relatively clear country roads would pay less than someone driving on a heavily congested urban road at peak time.

    Part of the idea is that it would encourage people to plan their journeys if possible to avoid congested periods and therefore spread the traffic load out. Sat nav systems would also route drivers along less congested roads. One danger is trhat it would turn otherwise quiet residential roads into rat runs.
    That's how most of the newer toll roads in the Dallas and Houston areas work. Toll rates go up and down with traffic volume. The alternate routes are usually other highways or 4-lane major streets.

    When we visited the UK in 2006, our hand-held Nav device took us on some very odd routes in and around Bath, including a dirt road through what looked like a wheat field. It's always good to have a map handy...

    Leave a comment:


  • MarkV
    replied
    The system suggested here would vary the charge depending on congestion so someone driving on relatively clear country roads would pay less than someone driving on a heavily congested urban road at peak time.

    Part of the idea is that it would encourage people to plan their journeys if possible to avoid congested periods and therefore spread the traffic load out. Sat nav systems would also route drivers along less congested roads. One danger is trhat it would turn otherwise quiet residential roads into rat runs.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Doctor
    replied
    Originally posted by Surrey View Post
    Tolls are inefficient and cumbersome. When I drove on the French motorways a few years back it seemed like we had to stop every hour or so to go through a toll.

    If you are going to have a usage based tax simplest is to tax fuel. Double benefit of reducing mileage and promoting more fuel efficient driving/cars. Even my SUV gets c45 miles to the gallon on average.

    I don't even have to slow down...

    https://www.ntta.org/Pages/mobile/index.html

    My NTTA toll tag also works for parking at Dallas Love Field airport and on Houston area toll roads.

    Dallas and Houston toll roads have no toll booths. If you don't have a toll tag, you get a bill in the mail.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vaeltaja
    replied
    I would kinda thought that people from USA would have been against government tracking and followng their cars continuously. Given how the electronic toll systems work ain't that the exact direction were that route would take you?

    Leave a comment:


  • Chukka
    replied
    Not sure how roads are funded in the states, but in Aus, it's fuel exise, i.e. Petrol tax. If electric cars gain critical mass, then the electric car users will get a free ride compared to the chumps driving gas guzzlers. Wouldn't be surprised if they get some sort of pay by the kilometre scheme.

    Leave a comment:


  • Surrey
    replied
    Tolls are inefficient and cumbersome. When I drove on the French motorways a few years back it seemed like we had to stop every hour or so to go through a toll.

    If you are going to have a usage based tax simplest is to tax fuel. Double benefit of reducing mileage and promoting more fuel efficient driving/cars. Even my SUV gets c45 miles to the gallon on average.

    Leave a comment:


  • TactiKill J.
    replied
    Trying to pass a bill Obama created doesn't sound like a good idea.

    Cost of gas continues to go up, housing, imports, taxes and now basic travel? No thanks.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jimmy_Bob
    replied
    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
    So long as the toll/tax for miles replaces the taxes on fuels, maybe ...

    What article and proponents tend to overlook is that even if one doesn't drive a vehicle, they still benefit from the paved road grid. First it does make possible emergency services to get around effectively. Then there is the huge volume of commerce provided by trucking. This looks to be a device that will result in increased costs to consumers for the goods and services they need which have to come via roads.
    I don't like the idea of the govt tracking everywhere I go, but I want to make a point about commercial trucking vs passenger cars. Living in Wyoming the biggest WYDOT budget item is I80 which has high truck traffic (up to 70 to 80% truck on certain stretches) of which over 80 percent has an origin and destination outside the state. A lot of goods headed from the east/midwest to California and vice versa. The heavy truck traffic requires much more robust, expensive pavement and base design. In my mind if out of state consumers are getting the most use (50 to 64% of total traffic) they should also bear the brunt of the cost via higher costs for those shipped goods.

    A road that sees little semi truck traffic and high passenger cars including pickups can be designed for a much lower cost per mile than roads with heavier truck traffic yet lower daily traffic.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bwaha
    replied
    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
    So long as the toll/tax for miles replaces the taxes on fuels, maybe ...

    What article and proponents tend to overlook is that even if one doesn't drive a vehicle, they still benefit from the paved road grid. First it does make possible emergency services to get around effectively. Then there is the huge volume of commerce provided by trucking. This looks to be a device that will result in increased costs to consumers for the goods and services they need which have to come via roads.
    Include bicyclists in that tax farm. They use the roads as well...

    Leave a comment:


  • G David Bock
    replied
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    This would disproportionately hit rural and low population states really hard. One on the best things about the US is that the population is mobile. Toll roads and high fuel prices would make mobility far more difficult.

    As odd as it sounds, in Arizona people often commute 30 to 75 miles one way to work. That's the rough equivalent of driving from the northern suburbs of Chicago to the south side. A toll one way could amount to an hour's pay or more for many people. That might force them to live and play near where they work rather than have the flexibility to go where they'd like.

    It would also raise the cost of goods as trucking would become more expensive, and I doubt current takes on commercial vehicles would go away to make the cost remain constant.
    So long as the toll/tax for miles replaces the taxes on fuels, maybe ...

    What article and proponents tend to overlook is that even if one doesn't drive a vehicle, they still benefit from the paved road grid. First it does make possible emergency services to get around effectively. Then there is the huge volume of commerce provided by trucking. This looks to be a device that will result in increased costs to consumers for the goods and services they need which have to come via roads.

    Leave a comment:

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