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Does Mueller Indictment Mean Clinton Campaign Can Be Indicted

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  • Does Mueller Indictment Mean Clinton Campaign Can Be Indicted

    Interesting opinion piece from a lawyer:

    First, if Mueller’s theory is correct, three things make Steele a criminal: first, he is a foreign citizen; second, he tried to influence an election, which he received payments to do (including from the FBI itself); and third, he neither registered as a foreign agent nor listed his receipts and expenditures to the Federal Election Commission. Also, according to the FBI, along the way, Steele lied…a lot, while the dossier he disseminated contained its own lies based on bought-and-paid for smears from foreign sources reliant on rumors and innuendo.

    Second, if Mueller’s theory is correct, three things make FusionGPS a criminal co-conspirator: it knew Steele was a foreign citizen; it knew, and paid, Steele to influence an election; and it knew, and facilitated, Steele neither registering as a foreign agent nor reporting his funding from the Democratic National Committee and the Clinton campaign to the Federal Election Commission.

    Third, if Mueller’s theory is correct, then three things make PerkinsCoie a potential target: it knew Steele was a foreign citizen; it knew, and paid, Steele to influence an election; and it knew, and facilitated, Steele neither registering as a foreign agent nor reporting his funding from the Democratic National Committee and the Clinton campaign to the Federal Election Commission, by disguising its receipt of payments from the Clinton campaign as a “legal expense.”

    Fourth, if Mueller’s theory is correct, then three things make the DNC a potential target: it knew Steele was a foreign citizen; it knew, and paid, Steele to influence an election; and it knew, and facilitated, Steele neither registering as a foreign agent nor reporting his funding from the Democratic National Committee and the Clinton campaign to the Federal Election Commission, by disguising its payments to Steele as laundered legal expenses to a law firm.

    Fifth, if Mueller’s theory is correct, three things make the Clinton Campaign a potential target: it knew Steele was a foreign citizen; it knew, and paid, Steele to influence an election; and it knew, and facilitated, Steele neither registering as a foreign agent nor reporting his funding from the Clinton campaign to the Federal Election Commission, by disguising its funding of payments to Steele laundered through a law firm as a “legal expense.”

    https://lawandcrime.com/opinion/does...-chris-steele/
    "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

  • #2
    I don't know but it seems like every time the left thinks it has Trump it digs it's grave a little deeper. Why they don't just clean house and move on speaks to the arrogance that comes from power.

    The problem with the democrats has long been that people not accustomed to power don't know how to handle power. They put people in power who having never had it become intoxicated by it much like a child and their first experience with alcohol. The corruption of the old establishment that was steeped in power by breeding and life experience is a different more subtle animal. This insight adds a special meaning to the chant "by any means necessary".

    How much better off the country would be if the democrats had decided to avoid identity politics and select candidates based purely on competence we will never know. What we do know now is that an incompetent candidate such as Clinton has repercussions that few of us could have predicted 2 years ago.

    People better educated than I scoff at the idea that Marxism has had a significant influence on our society but here we have an example of how ideas about equality that seem innocuous have tremendous impact on our political institutions. For sure these kinds of forces existed before postmodernism and neo Marxism existed and can be seen in how the Irish manipulated the democratic machinery of cities all around the nation. It is also true that the condition of the poor in many cases were improved when they gained a voice. That voice however has always been a bit corrupt. That we seem indifferent to that corruption is largely the result of the arrogance that is a luxury of the amazing wealth generated by free markets such as those of Rome. The important lesson is how fragile our institutions are. Seemly insignificant corruption over time can have devastating effects.
    We hunt the hunters

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    • #3
      Yes, she and the DNC should be, but I'm not holding my breath on that happening.

      Comment


      • #4
        I think the only thing that your man has right here is that he's a foreign national.

        Having read the Fusion GPS House Intel Panel transcripts of the evidence given under oath I don't see how you can pin "tried to influence an election" on him, unless reporting concerns of potential criminality and/or exposure to external pressure to law enforcement as attempting to influence an election.

        As for lies and bought and paid for smears, the testimony makes it clear that the FBI were interested because it corroborated intel they already had, subsequently disclosed as being from the Australian government.

        Now if it subsequently comes out that the source of the leak to Buzzfeed was from Chris Steele....

        By the way, if you haven't read the transcript you should, takes a few hours to get through but its an eye opener.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Fodder76 View Post
          I think the only thing that your man has right here is that he's a foreign national.

          Having read the Fusion GPS House Intel Panel transcripts of the evidence given under oath I don't see how you can pin "tried to influence an election" on him, unless reporting concerns of potential criminality and/or exposure to external pressure to law enforcement as attempting to influence an election.

          As for lies and bought and paid for smears, the testimony makes it clear that the FBI were interested because it corroborated intel they already had, subsequently disclosed as being from the Australian government.

          Now if it subsequently comes out that the source of the leak to Buzzfeed was from Chris Steele....

          By the way, if you haven't read the transcript you should, takes a few hours to get through but its an eye opener.
          The transcript of Glenn Simpson's (Fusion GPS) testimony is100% vapid.

          A search of the PDF for the word "collusion" yielded zero-point-zero results...



          "Collude" and "colluded" also yielded zero-point-zero results.




          CBS NEWS January 9, 2018, 8:50 PM
          Did someone die because of the Steele dossier?

          An attorney for the co-founder of the opposition research firm that sought to dig up dirt on President Trump says someone has died as a result of their findings.

          On Monday, Sen. Dianne Feinstein released a 312-page transcript of Fusion GPS co-founder Glenn Simpson's August interview with the Senate Judiciary Committee. In that transcript, Simpson attorney Josh Levy tells the committee that his client "wants to be very careful to protect his sources."

          "Somebody's already been killed as a result of the publication of this dossier and no harm should come to anybody related to this honest work," Levy explains.

          The dossier, which alleges that then-candidate Donald Trump colluded with the Russian government during the 2016 election campaign, has never been substantiated. It was written by a former British spy, Christopher Steele, and paid for by Fusion GPS, which was operating as a client of the Clinton campaign.

          [...]

          [I]t has been speculated that Oleg Erovinkin, a former KGB general and chief of staff to Igor Sechin, was one of the primary sources for the document.

          [...]

          Conspiracy theorists have long speculated that Erovinkin is the source of the claims involving Sechin. However, there is no evidence that has emerged to back up this assertion. Erovinkin is one of a number of high-profile Russians who died in the months after the 2016 election.

          Mr. Trump has repeatedly dismissed the Steele memo as "fake news." Neither Levy nor his client elaborated on the identity of the person who allegedly died as a result of the memo's publication, which took place after Erovinkin died.

          [...]

          CBS News

          Who is the Trump-linked source who led the FBI to treat the dossier seriously?

          [...]

          On Tuesday, those tracking the details of the Russia investigation were handed an unexpected collection of information: a lightly redacted transcript of Simpson’s testimony, released by the office of Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.). Over the course of more than 300 pages, Simpson fields a number of questions about his firm’s work and the revelations contained in that dossier

          [...]

          Asked if he knew who that source was, Simpson declined to answer, though he did explain a bit more about what Steele told him. (Note that this is Simpson conveying what Steele says he was told by his FBI source in Rome.)

          ” . . . I think it was a voluntary source, someone who was concerned about the same concerns we had,” Simpson explained. “It was someone like us who decided to pick up the phone and report something.”

          In short, it’s not clear from this testimony who the “human source” from inside the Trump organization is — or even what Simpson means by “Trump organization.”

          [...]

          Why didn’t Simpson simply share the identity of the source with the Senate? He explained that it was for “security” reasons.

          “I was really careful throughout this process to not ask a lot of specific sourcing questions,” he testified. “There are some things I know that I just don’t feel comfortable sharing because obviously it’s been in the news a lot lately that people who get in the way of the Russians tend to get hurt.”

          At another point in the testimony, Simpson’s lawyers put a fine point on that argument, stating that “somebody’s already been killed as a result of the publication of this dossier.”

          Who that person is isn’t clear.

          Washington Post



          In real news...
          A federal judge ruled Thursday that the Washington-based firm Fusion GPS cannot block the House Intelligence Committee from subpoenaing the firm's financial records, according to court documents.

          Court records obtained by BuzzFeed News show that U.S. District Court Judge Richard Leon denied Fusion GPS's request for an injunction on the grounds that such a disclosure to Congress would violate the firm's First Amendment rights.

          "Because I find all of Fusion's objections to the subpoena to be unavailing" the motion was denied, wrote Leon, an appointee of former President George W. Bush.

          The Hill

          Last edited by The Doctor; 18 Feb 18, 19:07.
          Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Fodder76 View Post
            I think the only thing that your man has right here is that he's a foreign national.
            I don't see much of a difference between what Steele did and the Russians that were indicted.
            "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Nichols View Post
              I don't see much of a difference between what Steele did and the Russians that were indicted.
              But, but, but... TRUMP!!!



              Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Nichols View Post
                Interesting opinion piece from a lawyer:

                First, if Mueller’s theory is correct, three things make Steele a criminal: first, he is a foreign citizen; second, he tried to influence an election, which he received payments to do (including from the FBI itself); and third, he neither registered as a foreign agent nor listed his receipts and expenditures to the Federal Election Commission. Also, according to the FBI, along the way, Steele lied…a lot, while the dossier he disseminated contained its own lies based on bought-and-paid for smears from foreign sources reliant on rumors and innuendo.

                Second, if Mueller’s theory is correct, three things make FusionGPS a criminal co-conspirator: it knew Steele was a foreign citizen; it knew, and paid, Steele to influence an election; and it knew, and facilitated, Steele neither registering as a foreign agent nor reporting his funding from the Democratic National Committee and the Clinton campaign to the Federal Election Commission.

                Third, if Mueller’s theory is correct, then three things make PerkinsCoie a potential target: it knew Steele was a foreign citizen; it knew, and paid, Steele to influence an election; and it knew, and facilitated, Steele neither registering as a foreign agent nor reporting his funding from the Democratic National Committee and the Clinton campaign to the Federal Election Commission, by disguising its receipt of payments from the Clinton campaign as a “legal expense.”

                Fourth, if Mueller’s theory is correct, then three things make the DNC a potential target: it knew Steele was a foreign citizen; it knew, and paid, Steele to influence an election; and it knew, and facilitated, Steele neither registering as a foreign agent nor reporting his funding from the Democratic National Committee and the Clinton campaign to the Federal Election Commission, by disguising its payments to Steele as laundered legal expenses to a law firm.

                Fifth, if Mueller’s theory is correct, three things make the Clinton Campaign a potential target: it knew Steele was a foreign citizen; it knew, and paid, Steele to influence an election; and it knew, and facilitated, Steele neither registering as a foreign agent nor reporting his funding from the Clinton campaign to the Federal Election Commission, by disguising its funding of payments to Steele laundered through a law firm as a “legal expense.”

                https://lawandcrime.com/opinion/does...-chris-steele/
                I do not know what Mueller theory is... but I see a comparison of oranges to apples in the OP. The problem with the logic is that there is no consideration of the issue of the link between a "foreign citizen" and a "foreign government." Cooperating with a foreign citizen and giving him money to provide information certainly does not make you a criminal and it does not even imply anything morally wrong which is why it does not show "collusion". If this is the case then one comes to the irrational conclusion that a CIA agent who offers money to a Russian mole to provide Kremlin's secrets has somehow committed a crime or "colludes" (not a crime but morally wrong). Obviously, (I hope) we can agree that this is not the case (from the American perspective) which shows that the important issues are different.
                The first issue is if the foreign citizen is acting on behalf of a foreign government or not. A second issue is if national agencies are kept in the dark or not about this "cooperation", and of course a third issue is the actual nature of this cooperation.
                As for Steele, his file had a COLLECTION of different information and much of what it initially claimed is accepted right now, such as the attempt of the Russians to help Trump. For other pieces of information, it was well known that more research was required exactly because such information was not accepted as facts. As it is always the case with multiple sources of information, its credibility varies...
                Last edited by pamak; 21 Feb 18, 18:47.
                My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                Comment


                • #9
                  That's right ,,, everyone's guilty ... except Trump.

                  Never mind all the people that have been associated with Trump's campaign that have pled guilty to one crime or another ... it's all a big nothing burger...except I think it's a big nothing burger now populated with lettuce, Cheese Pickles, onions and tomatoes. I have a feeling, the meat is coming soon.
                  Conservatives in the U.S. won't be happy until Jim Crow returns and "White Heterosexual Only" signs are legalized.

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                  • #10
                    The Trump Russia thing is a clear case of propaganda by misdirection. Historians are going to have a good chuckle over it.
                    We hunt the hunters

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by pamak View Post
                      I do not know what Mueller theory is... but I see a comparison of oranges to apples in the OP.
                      I don't know, as I said an interesting opinion from a lawyer.

                      Maybe he knows more about the law that you or I?
                      "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Nichols View Post
                        I don't know, as I said an interesting opinion from a lawyer.

                        Maybe he knows more about the law that you or I?
                        Most probably he does not know what Mueller's theory is unless Mueller first speaks...
                        What I see is that this lawyer tries to create his own theory which does not make sense, such as being a crime for simply being a foreign citizen or that a person who does not live in the US (like Steele) has to register as a foreign agent...
                        My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by pamak View Post
                          Most probably he does not know what Mueller's theory is unless Mueller first speaks..
                          A lawyer writes an opinion piece about the law, you have determined that he doesn't know something.......how?
                          "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Nichols View Post
                            A lawyer writes an opinion piece about the law, you have determined that he doesn't know something.......how?
                            I have determined that he does not know what Mueller's theory is since Mueller does not give interviews about his views.

                            I also saw certain arguments that do not make sense, like the suppose requirement of Steele to register as a foreign agent. It is apples to oranges. Steele was a British national living in London and working for a private firm. His profile is much different from that of say Flynn who is an American citizens who actually got a position in the US government. And no, you do not need a law degree to see the absurdity of his attempts to compare apples to oranges...
                            My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by pamak View Post
                              I have determined that he does not know what Mueller's theory is since Mueller does not give interviews about his views.
                              Why did Mueller indict them?
                              "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                              Comment

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