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  • Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
    (...)
    ljadw's numbers are accepted by various groups.
    I'm sure they are


    If he had no guns, would the 17 victims still be alive ?
    He might have stabbed one or two, but the other 15 certainly yes.
    High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
      I'm sure they are
      You have numbers from a more reliable source?

      Or are you pulling your objections out of an orifice as well?
      Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
        You pulled those numbers out of your arse, as you usually do ?

        How on earth would you have the faintest idea on the number of guns in Argentina - to name just one ?
        Because I look at the sources : List of countries by fire arm-related death rate .

        Comment


        • Originally posted by ljadw View Post
          ..sources.
          I don't think that word means what you think it does
          High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.

          Comment


          • The list given by HPJ on post 240 gives ,as we could expect, a false picture , because it gives only the rate of fire arm-related deaths while it wisely is hidden the rate of guns .

            If one wants to compare fire arm-related deaths and the number of fire arms, one must give both .

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
              I don't think that word means what you think it does
              He means : your sources debunk my claims, thus they are not good .

              Comment


              • He means in fact,

                "None of Ljadw's posts here contain anything that can be remotely considered a source...."

                "Unless of course we count said "orifice" as a "source", which strictly speaking it is.."

                Edit, while this is all extremely entertaining, it is also what Richards I believe asked us politely not to do, so I'll leave at this.

                Thanks for some interesting discussion, for a while
                High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.

                Comment


                • Thanks for that information because (especially) as a non-American you are quite right; I do struggle to understand.
                  (However, I've considered the possibility that a substantial number of Americans have difficulty with it too?)

                  Would it be fair to assume, then, that you would agree with any of the following; and if so, which ones?:

                  (1) That improvement of this situation (i.e. reduction of the number of gun massacres and gun-related deaths in general), has no hope of being achieved via laws, regulations or any kind of official oversight?

                  (2) That some other measures have a better chance of achieving success; such as (for example) enabling everyone over a certain age to be able not only to own guns but to carry them?

                  (3) If you disagree with (2), what would you suggest? Or:

                  (4) There IS no real solution and no way of achieving any substantial reduction in gun deaths and/or gun massacres. It's a hopeless cause?

                  (5) Anything else I haven't mentioned yet?


                  Await your answer/s with genuine interest.

                  Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                  This isn't your country, so you don't understand; but to clarify the basics for you:

                  The government has no inherent legal right to deny ownership of a firearm to any adult citizen except after due process (a criminal trial). The tenuous legal basis for background checks is based solely on firearms purchases from dealers licensed to transfer firearms as a condition of their license. This accounts for about 40% of all firearms sales in the USA.

                  Not all LE agencies cooperate with background checks (nor can be required to), the and DoJ historically only prosecutes less than 0.01% of violators of background checks (In 2015, 12 cases prosecuted out of over 100,000 reported). The reason for this is that the legal basis for background checks is very thin, and cannot be risked in cases save very blatant disregard for a variety of statutes. Background checks have always been nothing more than a bluff.

                  It is estimated that only one out of three background checks actually interact with the correct subject's history. And none of them are allowed, by Federal law, to reference a subject's mental history except as established by due process. These are not 'loopholes'; they are a result of the limitations placed upon the Federal Government by our legal system.

                  There is no correlation between restrictions placed on private ownership and murders; in fact, all statistical data points very strongly to the opposite: that states with owner-friendly statutes have better long-term statistics.

                  Given that literally no one knows how many firearms are in the USA, or who has them, or how many are unlawfully imported, or how many are manufactured by private individuals, any sort of gun control proposition is, in terms of enforcement, laughable (assuming local and state agencies will enforce said statutes, which traditionally they do not).

                  Lastly, with 3D printers entering the scene, any statute passed today would be utterly pointless in a decade. The ability to generate any firearm, right down to factory serial number and maker's marks, already exists, albeit at uneconomic costs. But in ten years or less the technology will cheapen to the point where small organizations or criminal enterprises can set themselves up with the ability to produce whatever weapons they want, complete with or without serial numbers.

                  The most recent school shooting is tragic, but the system that failed it has nothing to do with firearms, and little to do with mental health. So long as schools make no provision for active shooters, active shooters will find them to be congenial environments.

                  Up until recent years grocery stores were the smart robber's choice; that tapered off drastically in the last twelve years. Why? Because the most common venue for private individuals carrying firearms is a grocery store.
                  "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                    Dbl standard...you comment often enough about other county's. Maybe this is a subject where you should just stfu.
                    Easy, my friend.

                    I'd like to see what this man has to say.
                    Not only is he is an American but also, if I recall correctly, one with some insights into law enforcement in his country?

                    But, thanks; and your opinion is important to me as well.
                    As an American who has (I think) resided in Europe for some very considerable time, I would value your perspectives too.

                    My British-born Aussie brain cells are still trying to understand all this.

                    Besides, if we can keep the discussion civil, I won't have to put on my Staff hat.
                    This whole thing is - to my mind - very tragic and sad.
                    If it's hard for me to reconcile it in my mind, I can't imagine how anyone close to this tragedy must be feeling.
                    "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
                      Short of a ban on the sale of firearms coupled with forced confiscation of existing privately owned firearms I'm not sure there is much that can be done.

                      These types of shootings are perpetrated by the mentally ill, keeping guns out of the hands of those people is an admirable goal, but easier said than done.
                      If you simply confiscate all legally held firearms, you don't stop murder, you just change who the victims are and the manner of their deaths by removing their ability to defend themselves.

                      I have no idea how many defensive gun incidents there are each year, as all the data I have seen tends to be published by groups with an agenda on both sides of the issue.
                      (My bold) Thanks, you have made some good posts.
                      The bit I bolded is where my hopes were.
                      Seems it's very difficult to do, though.
                      Do you think there is anything that CAN be done? If so, then what?
                      "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                      Comment


                      • Where I'd start is in grade school. Train the teachers to Id the symptoms and report the kid to the authorities. What to do then? Drug them? That's not working so well.

                        If we found them in their formative years it would be easier to do something than waiting for them to become full blown nutters.
                        Credo quia absurdum.


                        Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by panther3485 View Post
                          (My bold) Thanks, you have made some good posts.
                          The bit I bolded is where my hopes were.
                          Seems it's very difficult to do, though.
                          Do you think there is anything that CAN be done? If so, then what?


                          I really don't know if there is anything that can be done, but do know that all the proposals I've seen are either unworkable or simply an attempt to ban guns.
                          Since we don't know who can legally be declared mentally incompetent until after they have acted, I am not sure that we can prevent them from getting their hands on guns.

                          What is most troubling about this incident is the fact that people did exactly what they should have done and it seems the FBI dropped the ball.
                          I can't say the FBI should have acted differently because I don't know exactly what they were aware of.
                          Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                          Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by panther3485 View Post
                            Easy, my friend.

                            I'd like to see what this man has to say.
                            Not only is he is an American but also, if I recall correctly, one with some insights into law enforcement in his country?

                            But, thanks; and your opinion is important to me as well.
                            As an American who has (I think) resided in Europe for some very considerable time, I would value your perspectives too.

                            My British-born Aussie brain cells are still trying to understand all this.

                            Besides, if we can keep the discussion civil, I won't have to put on my Staff hat.
                            This whole thing is - to my mind - very tragic and sad.
                            If it's hard for me to reconcile it in my mind, I can't imagine how anyone close to this tragedy must be feeling.
                            Thanks and correct. 30 years living in Germany, 22 in the military, 12 of those in Europe, Ex NRA member from back in the day they were more interested to American Rifleman and not a PAC buying support with millions of questionable dollars. Once owner of a number of different weapons/guns, all unregistered and all legal even though I was only 17 at the time. I still like guns and most likely would own more than one if in the US but wouldn't be running around jo with one in my hand. IF turning in my guns would save one mass shooting I'd be first in line. My 2nd Amendment rights are far out weight by the rights of others to "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" . imo those that place their second rights ahead of the right to life of others is morally corrupt. One, two, three mass shootings how many is to many? I've had enough and no excuse is acceptable to me. Something has to change and soon. We cannot sweep it under the rug until the next one. That is the cowards way.
                            "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                            Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                            you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
                              Where I'd start is in grade school. Train the teachers to Id the symptoms and report the kid to the authorities. What to do then? Drug them? That's not working so well.

                              If we found them in their formative years it would be easier to do something than waiting for them to become full blown nutters.
                              Ah, pass it off on the teachers. They didn't have the kids.
                              "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                              Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                              you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by panther3485 View Post
                                If it's hard for me to reconcile it in my mind, I can't imagine how anyone close to this tragedy must be feeling.
                                I disagree : it is not a tragedy (the aircraft accident in Iran is a tragedy ) ,it is a crime, and the first thing to do after a crime is to hold the criminal who did it ,responsible for the crime and to punish him .Not to try to get political gain from it by accusing people who were not responsible for it .

                                Comment

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