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  • Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
    Banning the sale of firearms isnít going to have any real impact on crime, because criminals arenít likely to try and buy a gun legally.
    Not on crime as such, but certainly on this type of school shootings.

    If you look at the likely suspects, these are not people with an elaborate criminal network, or any the required skills (or funds) that would allow them to easily obtain anything illegally.

    If fairly certain that if there was no easy and cheap way for them to obtain one, they wouldn't likely have a gun at all, regardless of their rights.
    High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.

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    • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
      So are live cows but I imagine there are laws in place that prevent, or at least limit, say Walmart, from selling them ?
      Not that I'm aware of. I doubt it, in fact. Wal Mart does sell M-4 series weapons, most notably the SiG series.

      Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
      As I understand there are limitations on the right to sell guns in the US now, otherwise there wouldn't be "licenced dealers", just "dealers".

      So the question is, in how far can the right to sell be limited without conflicting with the rights to own and carry.
      The limits are varied.

      When I sell a firearm, only only legal obligation is to sell it to the proper age (18 if a long gun, 21 of a handgun). However that is rarely, if ever, enforced.

      States can try to limit, but given the USSC rulings against Illinois' efforts in that regard, it is an expensive and generally temporary measure that is not terribly well enforced, if at all.
      Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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      • Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
        More of your absurd BS

        Not only you can't read, but you can't also count .

        US has 12 X more weapons per million inhabitants than Russia , but Russia has 250 % more gun related murders per million inhabitants than the USA .

        The Russian murder rate is 3000 % higher than it should be if guns and murders were related .

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
          Not on crime as such, but certainly on this type of school shootings.

          If you look at the likely suspects, these are not people with an elaborate criminal network, or any the required skills (or funds) that would allow them to easily obtain anything illegally.

          If fairly certain that if there was no easy and cheap way for them to obtain one, they wouldn't likely have a gun at all, regardless of their rights.


          Short of a ban on the sale of firearms coupled with forced confiscation of existing privately owned firearms I'm not sure there is much that can be done.

          These types of shootings are perpetrated by the mentally ill, keeping guns out of the hands of those people is an admirable goal, but easier said than done.
          If you simply confiscate all legally held firearms, you don't stop murder, you just change who the victims are and the manner of their deaths by removing their ability to defend themselves.

          I have no idea how many defensive gun incidents there are each year, as all the data I have seen tends to be published by groups with an agenda on both sides of the issue.
          Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

          Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

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          • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
            Not on crime as such, but certainly on this type of school shootings.

            If you look at the likely suspects, these are not people with an elaborate criminal network, or any the required skills (or funds) that would allow them to easily obtain anything illegally.

            If fairly certain that if there was no easy and cheap way for them to obtain one, they wouldn't likely have a gun at all, regardless of their rights.
            You don't need an elaborate criminal network to buy anything illegal, or special skills. You just need cash. And frequently less than if you wanted to buy it legally.

            But you overlook the obvious: the government cannot restrict private ownership of firearms. It is in the Bill of Rights. Nor can they effectively impede that form of commerce. The USSC has hurt them badly when they had tried.

            But let us say, for the sake of argument, that the US government decided to ignore the Bill of Rights, the USSC, and the largest private lobby in the USA, and ban firearm sales.

            That would not impact school or mass shootings. Because there are anywhere from 1.5 to 6 firearms per person in the USA, and every week thousands more flow illegally across our border. No one knows who has nearly any of those guns, or even how many guns exist.

            It would take decades (assuming state and local LE agencies cooperated in enforcing the law, which historically they won't) to get the current pool of weapons reduced to even modest levels, and of course long before that the laws would be thrown out and the status quo returned.

            And 3D printer tech will be come cheap enough so that gun control is just a thing people used to talk about.
            Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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            • Originally posted by ljadw View Post
              Not only you can't read, but you can't also count .

              US has 12 X more weapons per million inhabitants than Russia , but Russia has 250 % more gun related murders per million inhabitants than the USA .

              The Russian murder rate is 3000 % higher than it should be if guns and murders were related .
              Put him on Ignore.
              Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                (...) and ban firearm sales.
                Not ban them, severely limit them with a view of preventing those weak of spirit and low on funds from easily obtaining one legally.

                But you are right of course - it still all comes down to one fundamental issue, do you believe that everybody and his dog should own and carry a gun.

                Most of you do, I don't, so be it
                High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                  Put him on Ignore.
                  By all means please do so.

                  If you cannot listen to others' opinions, then it is you who are ignoring the Bill of Rights.

                  Incredible. You are what you accuse others of doing.

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                  • Interesting...

                    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/on...cid=spartandhp

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                    • Argentina : gun homicides per 100000 inhabitants : 2.58

                      : guns per 100 inhabitants :10.2

                      Austria : homicides :0.10

                      :guns : 30.4

                      If guns and homicides were related ,the homicides rate in Argentina should be
                      0.86, in Austria it should be 0.30.

                      Belgium and Canada have almost the same homicides rate (0.33 and 0.38) but Belgium has less than 60 % of the guns of Canada .

                      France and Germany have almost the same gun rate (31.2 and 30.3 )but France has a homicide rate that is 3 X higher than that of Germany (0.21 and 0.07).

                      The homicide rate in Argentina is 36 X higher than that of Germany,although Germany has 3 X more guns per 100 inhabitants . Thus the homice rate in Argentina is 108X too high .

                      Explanation ?

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                      • Explanation ?
                        You pulled those numbers out of your arse, as you usually do ?

                        How on earth would you have the faintest idea on the number of guns in Argentina - to name just one ?
                        High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
                          Not ban them, severely restrict the sale of them with a view of preventing those weak of spirit and low on funds from easily obtaining one legally.

                          But you are right of course - it still all comes down to one fundamental issue, do you believe that everybody and his dog should own and carry a gun.

                          Most of you do, I don't, so be it
                          You don't live here, so your opinion is moot.

                          'Weak of spirit'? I don't know what that is, but it certainly isn't a legal term.

                          As to a shortage of funds, a man set on murder will think nothing of paying $100 for a stolen firearm.

                          And as I've noted: the government does not have the authority to restrict firearm sales any more than they actually do, and even many of the current restrictions exist only on paper or until challenged in a higher court.

                          Just a few days ago gun purchasing standards were significantly eased, BTW. Congress struck down background checks accessing certain types of mental health rulings.

                          In the end, it is very simple: owning guns is our right. The government does not need to know what we own or whom we sell them to. They have no legal right to ban carrying them, although for the moment they can enact some modest restrictions. Which may or may not be enforced.
                          Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                            You don't live here, so ..
                            Well you do not live here either.

                            You are in fact a hologram, so I doubt your are one to judge
                            High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.

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                            • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
                              Well you do not live here either.

                              You are in fact a hologram, so I doubt your are one to judge
                              Only until the hard light drive was obtained...

                              ljadw's numbers are accepted by various groups.

                              The trouble is that different nations define homicide by different standards. And in fact the US changed its system in the late 90s, which coincidentally produced dramatic reductions in violent crime...

                              But for one example, the UK does not count certain types of deaths as homicides, whereas the USA does. When you apply the same system to both countries the ratio difference narrows dramatically.

                              However, I don't trust governmental crime statistics of any nation, especially the USA's. Agencies report or don't report according to their own whims.

                              And you always have to ask yourself what politics are involved. For example, my agency hasn't had an unsolved murder since 1985. But we have had some extremely dubious suicides...
                              Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                              Comment


                              • If the number of guns per 100 inhabitants in Germany (which is 25% ) of that in the USA would be the same as that in the US, would then the number of gun homicides be the same as in the US ?

                                More guns does not mean more gun homicides, and less guns does not mean less homicides .To have more homicides, you need more criminals and to have less homicides you need less criminals .

                                If Cruz had 2 AK-15s would he have killed 34 people ? If he had no AK-15s, would he have killed no one ? If he had no guns, would the 17 victims still be alive ?

                                If the terrorist who murdered people in NY had an AK-15 , would he have killed people, more, less ?

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