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  • Let's just change the name for school to uterus and see how fast the Right to life people jump on board. 17 children killed in the uterus in FL...not a peep. But they are also mostly for the death penalty. Does that make sense?
    "Ask not what your country can do for you"

    Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

    you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

    Comment


    • Gentlemen, and I use the term loosely, it seems you can't play nice with each other in this time of tragedy. This thread is closed while Staff debates what further to do with it and those who can't keep their animosity in check. -ACG Seniour Staff.
      Eagles may fly; but weasels aren't sucked into jet engines!

      "I'm not expendable; I'm not stupid and I'm not going." - Kerr Avon, Blake's 7

      What didn't kill us; didn't make us smarter.

      Comment


      • Thread re-opened but ...

        (1) We know this is a topic that will stir strong emotions.
        However, we still need to desist from personal attacks and/or personally focused comments of a negative nature.
        In other words, please debate the TOPIC; NOT the perceived attitudes and attributes of fellow members, no matter how strongly you feel.

        (2) The thread is re-opened on the strict understanding that members will adhere to item (1) above.

        (3) Further violations will end with PERMANENT closure and disciplinary action against those breaking the rules.
        Yes, it's a genuine tragedy and it has appalled people all over the World.
        But we are still courteous to each other and we follow forum rules, OK?
        "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

        Comment


        • Maniacs, drunks and junkies often get behind the wheel of a car and cause smashes that kill innocents, but that doesn't mean all cars should be banned.
          Same with guns..









          Last edited by Poor Old Spike; 18 Feb 18, 20:49.

          Comment


          • For me its important to have firearms if for no other reason than defense against critters. Mountain Lions are no joke neither are bears... I had a mountain lion whelp some kits about 100 yards from back door. Did I carry when outdoors of my house? You bet.

            Nature is wild and there's hungry critters out there. https://www.wildlife.ca.gov/Conserva...n-Lion/Attacks

            Now I didn't provoke or mess with them, put on my tree spikes and scoped them out from a tree. Literally. I took my 6.5 Swede with me cause its the perfect brush gun and I wanted to see them up close through the scope.
            Credo quia absurdum.


            Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
              Maniacs, drunks and junkies often get behind the wheel of a car and cause smashes that kill innocents, but that doesn't mean all cars should be banned.
              Same with guns..
              From my own observations of these discussions (not just here, but in general), few people are serious about trying to ban guns, as such.
              I don't think that would be a practical proposition even in my own country, much less the USA where the right to bear arms is in their Constitution.
              However, a substantial proportion of folks seem to think that accessibility to guns should be tightened up somewhat, so that it's not so easy for nutjobs to get one.
              I think I could safely place myself in that category (I mean, wanting to see the regs tightened, not being a nutjob - I hope! ).
              It seems to be too easy for persons of unsound mind and/or with dodgy backgrounds, to get their hands on a gun; and often, very potent weapons at that.
              "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

              Comment


              • Originally posted by panther3485 View Post
                From my own observations of these discussions (not just here, but in general), few people are serious about trying to ban guns, as such.
                I don't think that would be a practical proposition even in my own country, much less the USA where the right to bear arms is in their Constitution.
                However, a substantial proportion of folks seem to think that accessibility to guns should be tightened up somewhat, so that it's not so easy for nutjobs to get one.
                I think I could safely place myself in that category (I mean, wanting to see the regs tightened, not being a nutjob - I hope! ).
                It seems to be too easy for persons of unsound mind and/or with dodgy backgrounds, to get their hands on a gun; and often, very potent weapons at that.
                Exactly. For me its using the existing laws instead of ignoring them. And common sense for a change.
                Credo quia absurdum.


                Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

                Comment


                • Originally posted by panther3485 View Post
                  From my own observations of these discussions (not just here, but in general), few people are serious about trying to ban guns, as such.
                  I don't think that would be a practical proposition even in my own country, much less the USA where the right to bear arms is in their Constitution.
                  However, a substantial proportion of folks seem to think that accessibility to guns should be tightened up somewhat, so that it's not so easy for nutjobs to get one.
                  I think I could safely place myself in that category (I mean, wanting to see the regs tightened, not being a nutjob - I hope! ).
                  It seems to be too easy for persons of unsound mind and/or with dodgy backgrounds, to get their hands on a gun; and often, very potent weapons at that.
                  Criminals, nutjobs, persons with unsound mind will always be able to have guns, unless one replaces democracy by a dictatorship and forbids all civilians to have a weapon , and even then, there will be a black market .

                  What you propose will never work ;it is the same with drunk drivers .

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by ljadw View Post
                    Criminals, nutjobs, persons with unsound mind will always be able to have guns, unless one replaces democracy by a dictatorship and forbids all civilians to have a weapon , and even then, there will be a black market .

                    What you propose will never work ;it is the same with drunk drivers .
                    What I'm proposing could never be a perfect solution, of course; I know this already; but any potential improvement - no matter how small - is worth seeking.
                    Furthermore, I am not proposing any new laws or regulations, as such.
                    Rather, what I am proposing is a tightening-up (and/or "fine tuning") of existing laws and regulations.
                    If I understand the situation correctly, then this has a much better chance of being effective if the more stringent laws and regulations in some States were universally applied across all States of the USA.
                    (Or have I got that part wrong?
                    I've gained the impression from somewhere, that the gun laws are not fully standardized across all the States?)

                    Therefore, if I am correct about that, the Americans already have a degree of "dictatorship" in at least some States.
                    I am merely suggesting that the level of this current "dictatorship" should be applied across the whole nation, and that any obvious gaps - where citizens can circumvent the laws - should, as far as reasonably possible, be closed.

                    From my reading of the situation in the USA, there are some obvious loopholes that could be closed or at least, tightened up. ...
                    (without turning the USA into a ... wait for it ... dictatorship! )
                    My belief is that background checks are worth having; but only if they are at a realistic level and consistent across the entire nation, in all situations where private citizens wish to purchase guns.
                    Furthermore, I would support laws that make it illegal to sell a gun privately, to anyone who would not pass a proper background check.

                    In other words, I believe some improvement IS achievable without massively radical changes or undue restrictions on the rights of decent law-abiding citizens to own a firearm.

                    How many gun deaths could be prevented with such a "tuning up" and national standardization of the system?
                    Far from all; but even an occasional win is worth pursuing, IMO.

                    Better than sitting back on their arses and not trying to improve anything.
                    Last edited by panther3485; 19 Feb 18, 05:14.
                    "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ljadw View Post
                      Criminals, nutjobs, persons with unsound mind will always be able to have guns, ...
                      Well I doubt that.

                      Take a look a the picture of this newest addition to the gallery of murderous juvenile bastards, it's posted all over the web so I won't post it here.

                      I wouldn't sell him a gun, nor dare I say anyone I know, would you ?

                      Without legal dealers, or parents who conveniently leave their guns for the taking, this fellow would have been armed with a steak knife, if at all..
                      High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.

                      Comment


                      • Yesterday, there was a dispute between 2 car drivers in Massachusetts, one of them, a woman, took a gun (not a AK-15) and killed the other one .

                        You can't prevent this by closing loopholes.

                        If the criminal in Florida had no AK-15 ,he would use a AK-14 ,or a Remington, or a Winchester , or a truck.

                        The same for the murderer of Orlando .

                        It is not a question of loopholes or forbidding assault guns : the ideological opponents of gun ownership will never stop til gun ownership will disappear/ be limited to criminals .

                        No one is talking about what is happening in Chicago where every day 17 people are killed by guns .

                        If there are no guns, criminals will use something else to kill people .

                        The nazis killed first Jews with guns (Einsatzgruppen), later they used poison gaz in the extermination camps ,although they had still guns .

                        Trucks, knives, guns, ......do not kill: criminals kill .

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by ljadw View Post
                          (...) criminals kill .
                          No doubt, but they kill far fewer if they don't have a gun

                          Oh, as for the actual question ?

                          Would you sell him a gun ?
                          High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
                            Well I doubt that.

                            Take a look a the picture of this newest addition to the gallery of murderous juvenile bastards, it's posted all over the web so I won't post it here.

                            I wouldn't sell him a gun, nor dare I say anyone I know, would you ?

                            Without legal dealers, or parents who conveniently leave their guns for the taking, this fellow would have been armed with a steak knife, if at all..
                            Legal dealers are not needed, there is the black market, and if needed, he would use a truck .Besides, a picture is not a proof : look at the woman in Massachusetts who killed an other driver .

                            The theory of the Italian criminologist who claimed that one couls recognize a criminal at his face is no longer believed by any one .

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ljadw View Post
                              Yesterday, there was a dispute between 2 car drivers in Massachusetts, one of them, a woman, took a gun (not a AK-15) and killed the other one .

                              You can't prevent this by closing loopholes.

                              If the criminal in Florida had no AK-15 ,he would use a AK-14 ,or a Remington, or a Winchester , or a truck.

                              The same for the murderer of Orlando .

                              It is not a question of loopholes or forbidding assault guns : the ideological opponents of gun ownership will never stop til gun ownership will disappear/ be limited to criminals .

                              No one is talking about what is happening in Chicago where every day 17 people are killed by guns .

                              If there are no guns, criminals will use something else to kill people .

                              The nazis killed first Jews with guns (Einsatzgruppen), later they used poison gaz in the extermination camps ,although they had still guns .

                              Trucks, knives, guns, ......do not kill: criminals kill .
                              Yes, but I am not suggesting that the USA can put a complete stop to gun killings.
                              Such a suggestion would obviously be ludicrous.
                              I am merely suggesting that there are obvious areas where the legal purchase of guns could, and should, be made much more difficult, for those who would not pass a reasonably stringent background check.

                              This may only prevent a tiny proportion of all the gun murders that might potentially occur; but IMO, it should be worth pursuing.

                              Speaking as an external observer, it seems to me that the greatest obstacle to any improvement - even a small improvement - is for Americans to reach a reasonable consensus on what should be done.
                              That, to my mind, appears to be the greatest obstacle.
                              "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by ljadw View Post
                                (...)
                                But would you sell him a gun ?

                                Originally posted by panther3485 View Post
                                (...)
                                Speaking as an external observer, it seems to me that the greatest obstacle to any improvement - even a small improvement - is for Americans to reach a reasonable consensus on what should be done.
                                That, to my mind, appears to be the greatest obstacle.
                                The problem seems to be they are unable to distinguish between "I want a gun.." and "..everybody has the right to own a gun.."
                                Last edited by Snowygerry; 19 Feb 18, 05:30.
                                High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.

                                Comment

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