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  • #16
    Originally posted by Jose50 View Post
    It's really too bad that the municipal deities who run these various sheriff's departments, city and town police departments and state authorities can't get together as a bargaining group and more or less come up with a universal design for a LE vehicle that has all the bells and whistles required, is easy to maintain, has modular efficiency and is safe for the operators.
    Fat chance. Trying to get police officers to agree on anything is tough.

    And the environments are vastly different. Highway Patrols and Sheriffs generally drive at higher speeds and longer distances; municipal PDs drive slow speeds, tons of braking, and bang into a lot of curbs.

    In Texas heat issues are critical; up north you have cold issues.

    Agencies with fleet vehicles are looking at a 2-3 year service life; agencies with take-home vehicle get at least double that.

    My agency has flood issues, so water clearance is key.

    And that's before makes and models of radios, dash cams, and cages begin. And do you roof-mount or cage-mount a long gun rack.

    And then you can start in on overheads: LED? Revolving bulb?

    My agency has a committee of patrol officers who review the standard rack layout (radio, emergency equipment, camera unit, computer) every year. It results in screaming matches and hard feelings every year.

    In my agency officers purchase, and own, their own sidearms, back-ups, and patrol rifles. There are at least eight different calibers in use.
    Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
      Fat chance. Trying to get police officers to agree on anything is tough.

      And the environments are vastly different. Highway Patrols and Sheriffs generally drive at higher speeds and longer distances; municipal PDs drive slow speeds, tons of braking, and bang into a lot of curbs.

      In Texas heat issues are critical; up north you have cold issues.

      Agencies with fleet vehicles are looking at a 2-3 year service life; agencies with take-home vehicle get at least double that.

      My agency has flood issues, so water clearance is key.

      And that's before makes and models of radios, dash cams, and cages begin. And do you roof-mount or cage-mount a long gun rack.

      And then you can start in on overheads: LED? Revolving bulb?

      My agency has a committee of patrol officers who review the standard rack layout (radio, emergency equipment, camera unit, computer) every year. It results in screaming matches and hard feelings every year.

      In my agency officers purchase, and own, their own sidearms, back-ups, and patrol rifles. There are at least eight different calibers in use.
      Speaking of lights, lately I have seen patrol cars without the red or blue light flashing and no sirens on, but with a single clear and very bright single light in the center of the light bar lite up and driving very quickly.
      That is a bit confusing, do we pull over?
      There has not been any public announcement about these new lights at all.
      Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
      Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

      Comment


      • #18
        They do, ...

        Originally posted by Jose50 View Post
        It's really too bad that the municipal deities who run these various sheriff's departments, city and town police departments and state authorities can't get together as a bargaining group and more or less come up with a universal design for a LE vehicle that has all the bells and whistles required, is easy to maintain, has modular efficiency and is safe for the operators.
        ... and the manufacturers listen, offering "Police Special" vehicles, with all sorts of beefed up heavy duty components not available to the general public; taxi companies scoop these babies up at auction. Bought new, they aren't cheap, the Crown Vic and Caprice were built as police specials long after they were deemed profitable in the general civilian market, the key is to buy in bulk. Specialized units like Drugs, Intelligence, Spin etc. will lease and register surreptitiously and equip as required. Services will also lease small compacts for a fleet of admin. vehicles for court, process service, community service; equipment varies but usually a service radio and a mixed traffic/first aid kit in the trunk is plenty. The BMW electrics could serve in smaller communities than LA, but a more conventional, practical, less expensive alternative would be better.

        Smart municipalities will team up and bargain for bulk purchases and/or leases, others with a limited tax base, and/or those that are small and/or primarily urban have been known to buy civilian off the shelf from the local car dealership, fit them out locally and hope for the best.



        These are some of the Cdn market "police special" offerings, I couldn't tell you if they're any good, I've been retired way too long:

        http://www.fcacanada.ca/fleet/en/veh...aw-enforcement

        https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/police-vehicles/

        http://www.gmfleet.ca/police.html
        "I am Groot"
        - Groot

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
          Fat chance. Trying to get police officers to agree on anything is tough.

          And the environments are vastly different. Highway Patrols and Sheriffs generally drive at higher speeds and longer distances; municipal PDs drive slow speeds, tons of braking, and bang into a lot of curbs.

          In Texas heat issues are critical; up north you have cold issues.

          Agencies with fleet vehicles are looking at a 2-3 year service life; agencies with take-home vehicle get at least double that.

          My agency has flood issues, so water clearance is key.

          And that's before makes and models of radios, dash cams, and cages begin. And do you roof-mount or cage-mount a long gun rack.

          And then you can start in on overheads: LED? Revolving bulb?

          My agency has a committee of patrol officers who review the standard rack layout (radio, emergency equipment, camera unit, computer) every year. It results in screaming matches and hard feelings every year.
          You overlooked those jurisdictions where off-road capability may be a necessity.

          Even within a department, there often are specialized units who'd have no use for a standard patrol car. Maritime/harbor units, ESU/SWAT can be examples of such.

          Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
          In my agency officers purchase, and own, their own sidearms, back-ups, and patrol rifles. There are at least eight different calibers in use.
          How many officers are we talking here? I'm guessing that in your dept, POs put in their expense sheets for ammo and training and are reimbursed, monthly, quarterly? Otherwise you're looking at a procurement and inventory nightmare.
          I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
            Our Chargers are now all in specialty units or stripped for CID. We are Tahoe fans, but being in a city with a limited pursuit policy we never really drew on the speed; they were fast.

            I miss the Crown Vics; yes, they ate alternators and batteries, but to me they are real police cars. I like the Tahoes well enough, but it's not the same.

            We heard bad things about the Explorers.

            Unless something radically changes my agency is going to have to buy panel vans and the transport kits in the coming years. The days of packing 3 or 4 into your back seat have passed.
            Yeah, Charger cages are pretty small, but then I rarely need to transport more than one unless I have to. And I agree, a city agency just has no need for them, you barely get up to 80 before you're stopping to clear an intersection anyway. It's only in the wide-open expanses of the country where you have the need or ability to stretch her out and discover her top speed (154mph with brush guard and light bar BTW).

            Yeah, if someone asks, DON'T get an Explorer. Ford screwed that one up pretty good. All of the problems of both a car and an SUV, and according to the supervisors that have them they're not comfortable either.
            Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
              Fat chance. Trying to get police officers to agree on anything is tough.

              And the environments are vastly different. Highway Patrols and Sheriffs generally drive at higher speeds and longer distances; municipal PDs drive slow speeds, tons of braking, and bang into a lot of curbs.

              In Texas heat issues are critical; up north you have cold issues.

              Agencies with fleet vehicles are looking at a 2-3 year service life; agencies with take-home vehicle get at least double that.

              My agency has flood issues, so water clearance is key.

              And that's before makes and models of radios, dash cams, and cages begin. And do you roof-mount or cage-mount a long gun rack.

              And then you can start in on overheads: LED? Revolving bulb?

              My agency has a committee of patrol officers who review the standard rack layout (radio, emergency equipment, camera unit, computer) every year. It results in screaming matches and hard feelings every year.

              In my agency officers purchase, and own, their own sidearms, back-ups, and patrol rifles. There are at least eight different calibers in use.
              Oh yeah. We have take home cars, and there's still hard feelings every time a new batch comes out. Though to some degree each of us can make (or get made) layout changes. Most of us also customize our light bar setup as well (buttons and such, it can be a fun bit of rewiring). Rule is, don't let anything that you touched break.....

              To have a universal police car here's what you need:

              A car big enough to haul 2 officers and 2 prisoners, the former in some state of comfort, the latter in some lack of discomfort (they're only in there for 20 minutes or so). It needs to be able to do 150mph and corner like a boss, but spend most of its time idling or driving 45mph without any carbon buildup issues or engine trouble. It needs to be able to drive over curbs without noticing, handle in the snow, and be able to get onto the beach without getting stuck.
              Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Marmat View Post
                ... and the manufacturers listen, offering "Police Special" vehicles, with all sorts of beefed up heavy duty components not available to the general public; taxi companies scoop these babies up at auction. Bought new, they aren't cheap, the Crown Vic and Caprice were built as police specials long after they were deemed profitable in the general civilian market, the key is to buy in bulk. Specialized units like Drugs, Intelligence, Spin etc. will lease and register surreptitiously and equip as required. Services will also lease small compacts for a fleet of admin. vehicles for court, process service, community service; equipment varies but usually a service radio and a mixed traffic/first aid kit in the trunk is plenty. The BMW electrics could serve in smaller communities than LA, but a more conventional, practical, less expensive alternative would be better.

                Smart municipalities will team up and bargain for bulk purchases and/or leases, others with a limited tax base, and/or those that are small and/or primarily urban have been known to buy civilian off the shelf from the local car dealership, fit them out locally and hope for the best.



                These are some of the Cdn market "police special" offerings, I couldn't tell you if they're any good, I've been retired way too long:

                http://www.fcacanada.ca/fleet/en/veh...aw-enforcement

                https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/police-vehicles/

                http://www.gmfleet.ca/police.html
                Yep. Ironically, Hybrids are actually useful to agencies....well ones with parking divisions, code enforcement, and stuff like that. The issues with Hybrids, like battery life, don't matter as much when you're going to dump the car after 5 years.....the average life of the battery pack. It's a matter of the BMWs being foisted on a division that has no need, use, or ability to utilize them.
                Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

                Comment


                • #23
                  Well, the usually very reliable Consumer Reports says the BMW i3 electric is pretty close to a POS when it comes to reliability, not that they're impressed with any electric car on this score...

                  https://gas2.org/2016/03/17/used-ele...sumer-reports/

                  According to Green Car Reports, the latest CR data is equally unkind to electric cars. It lists the 2014 BMW i3 as a used car to avoid because of an unfavorable reliability record.
                  https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/bmw/i3

                  With a 75 mile average range on a charge, you couldn't even drive across LA in it... You'd need hotel reservations...

                  Yep, this is a political boondoggle of the Left that wasted $10 million in taxpayer money.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                    Our Chargers are now all in specialty units or stripped for CID. We are Tahoe fans, but being in a city with a limited pursuit policy we never really drew on the speed; they were fast.

                    I miss the Crown Vics; yes, they ate alternators and batteries, but to me they are real police cars. I like the Tahoes well enough, but it's not the same.

                    We heard bad things about the Explorers.

                    Unless something radically changes my agency is going to have to buy panel vans and the transport kits in the coming years. The days of packing 3 or 4 into your back seat have passed.
                    Do you miss the old 9C1 Caprice?

                    Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk
                    ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

                    BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

                    BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Ah, ...

                      Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post
                      Yep. Ironically, Hybrids are actually useful to agencies....well ones with parking divisions, code enforcement, and stuff like that. The issues with Hybrids, like battery life, don't matter as much when you're going to dump the car after 5 years.....the average life of the battery pack. It's a matter of the BMWs being foisted on a division that has no need, use, or ability to utilize them.
                      ... a resourceful manager would find a way to use them OR at least creatively get miles put on them, which apparently would make some folks happy. As it stands, the only winner's gonna be the leaser, and this guy

                      "I am Groot"
                      - Groot

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