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  • Got a package via fedex.

    Okay my dad has five to six months to go. Got a package of syringes and morphine inside. I'm not okay with this... I'd rather go the herbal method. Pot yes. Narcotics not so much. Quality of life is more important than duration and I really think that turning him into a junkie isn't the way to go. Now the Hospice nurse is to administer the drugs but I think its a bit too much.

    Things to consider, https://www.statnews.com/2016/06/21/...hospice-death/

    So as a palliative I can see its use. But now isn't the time I feel. He needs help dressing but other than that he's reasonably comfortable and does okay. Hallucinates often though. Doesn't really complain about pain. He's just delirious some times.

    Jamming a syringe of dope into him isn't my view of elder care.

    Your opinions?
    Credo quia absurdum.


    Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

  • #2
    A lot may depend on your Health Plan. I am on Medicare and I don't always get what I ask for. The Plan has limits.

    Pruitt
    Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

    Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

    by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

    Comment


    • #3
      I'd rather feed him a cookie or two. It's not about the money. It's about his dignity. I don't want his demise in bed being a junkie.

      I'm not into going into detail but his left side of his heart collapses due to pressure from a bad valve and a aneurysm. It's a rare condition. But fatal.

      So as the primary care provider I have a choice, allow them to put him down with narcotics or seek alternative options. Hey man it's my dad...
      Credo quia absurdum.


      Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

      Comment


      • #4
        If he has six months, he's not going to become a junkie.

        I've dealt with a lot of hospice patients, and none have ever complained about morphine.

        Since your father is mobile and delusional, something that will keep him happy and physically contained is a good idea.

        The hospice system deals with this situation every day; this is your first go.

        As to quality of life, morphine comes highly recommended.

        They're not 'putting him down'; keeping him peacefully immobile and calm given the physical threat to his heart is a good idea.

        I am not trying to sound harsh, B. This is the final countdown, a time to make your peace and him comfortable.
        Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

        Comment


        • #5
          I recently went through something similar with my mother. Since she was in a extended care facility and under the care of a doctor the narcotics were administered without my consent. At the time I did not even realize that the term put down was appropriate but on reflection it is clear that she died from the administration of narcotics. It is hard to describe how I feel. Certainly the fact that I was not consulted puts the responsibility for the decision to end her life entirely on the medical staff. Would I have liked to be involved in the decision? I don't know what I could have said to alter the decision, at 98 she had her mental faculties pretty much in tact but her lungs were shot. She had signed a no artificial life support document and living wills I assume are not subject to the whims of your children.

          It would be nice if we all just passed away quietly in our sleep. I have a living will that gives my wife discretion should I need artificial life support without hope of recovery. That could be an unnecessary burden on her. She is not however the kind of person that would demand unreasonable life support. She may also be the kind of person that would rather make the decisions herself. These are difficult decisions that involve many individual factors not the least of which are personality traits.

          The one thing I'm certain of is that I would prefer to have narcotics and sleep my way to death than spends days slowly dying. I'm not particularly afraid of dying as much as afraid of becoming afraid of dying because I have become delirious or irrational.
          We hunt the hunters

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
            I recently went through something similar with my mother. Since she was in a extended care facility and under the care of a doctor the narcotics were administered without my consent. At the time I did not even realize that the term put down was appropriate but on reflection it is clear that she died from the administration of narcotics. It is hard to describe how I feel. Certainly the fact that I was not consulted puts the responsibility for the decision to end her life entirely on the medical staff. Would I have liked to be involved in the decision? I don't know what I could have said to alter the decision, at 98 she had her mental faculties pretty much in tact but her lungs were shot. She had signed a no artificial life support document and living wills I assume are not subject to the whims of your children.

            It would be nice if we all just passed away quietly in our sleep. I have a living will that gives my wife discretion should I need artificial life support without hope of recovery. That could be an unnecessary burden on her. She is not however the kind of person that would demand unreasonable life support. She may also be the kind of person that would rather make the decisions herself. These are difficult decisions that involve many individual factors not the least of which are personality traits.

            The one thing I'm certain of is that I would prefer to have narcotics and sleep my way to death than spends days slowly dying. I'm not particularly afraid of dying as much as afraid of becoming afraid of dying because I have become delirious or irrational.
            Very well said.
            Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

            Comment


            • #7
              You'll have to do what your heart tells you to do, what you think is best for him and for you. While I can sympathize with you, I can't honestly give you the correct answer, and no one else can.
              The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the Second only applies to muskets?

              Comment


              • #8
                Pushing drugs is what doctors do best, I'd like to see how much money they make by doing this from the drug industry. Money drives the world.

                Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
                Okay my dad has five to six months to go. Got a package of syringes and morphine inside. I'm not okay with this... I'd rather go the herbal method. Pot yes. Narcotics not so much. Quality of life is more important than duration and I really think that turning him into a junkie isn't the way to go. Now the Hospice nurse is to administer the drugs but I think its a bit too much.

                Things to consider, https://www.statnews.com/2016/06/21/...hospice-death/

                So as a palliative I can see its use. But now isn't the time I feel. He needs help dressing but other than that he's reasonably comfortable and does okay. Hallucinates often though. Doesn't really complain about pain. He's just delirious some times.

                Jamming a syringe of dope into him isn't my view of elder care.

                Your opinions?
                My worst jump story:
                My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                No lie.

                ~
                "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                -2 Commando Jumpmaster

                Comment


                • #9
                  Better you giving him the occasional shot of "happy juice" than sticking him in a home with who knows what sort of quality of care where they might well just put him in soft restraints and let him defile himself.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
                    I'd rather feed him a cookie or two. It's not about the money. It's about his dignity. I don't want his demise in bed being a junkie.

                    I'm not into going into detail but his left side of his heart collapses due to pressure from a bad valve and a aneurysm. It's a rare condition. But fatal.

                    So as the primary care provider I have a choice, allow them to put him down with narcotics or seek alternative options. Hey man it's my dad...
                    Look at it this way, if he's taking the morphine for pain relief and to improve his quality of life, then he's not a junkie. Those who abuse drugs to get high are junkies. There's a huge difference.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Do you want your father to suffer through the few months he has left?
                      Itís that simple.
                      He has an untreatable condition, the best you can hope for is to ease the suffering.
                      Ultimately it is your call, if you chose to try ďcookiesĒ you will know if it is helping by his level of agitation.
                      I donít envy you, itís about as bad a situation as one can find themselves in.
                      Our sympathies are more valuable now than our advice.
                      Gods Peace.
                      Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                      Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        BWaHa - Been through this situation myself. No matter what you decide my friend it is the right choice. It is a freaking impossible situation you are in and any choice you make is the correct one. Remember that and whatever you decide and the result it was the right choice.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
                          Okay my dad has five to six months to go. Got a package of syringes and morphine inside. I'm not okay with this... I'd rather go the herbal method. Pot yes. Narcotics not so much. Quality of life is more important than duration and I really think that turning him into a junkie isn't the way to go. Now the Hospice nurse is to administer the drugs but I think its a bit too much.

                          Things to consider, https://www.statnews.com/2016/06/21/...hospice-death/

                          So as a palliative I can see its use. But now isn't the time I feel. He needs help dressing but other than that he's reasonably comfortable and does okay. Hallucinates often though. Doesn't really complain about pain. He's just delirious some times.

                          Jamming a syringe of dope into him isn't my view of elder care.

                          Your opinions?


                          Herbal isn't going to cut it, period. If he's delirious now, he'll be worse on the kind of "herbal" that you are considering.

                          But, since you disagree with his treatment, you should sit down with his physician and discuss it, along with him if he is able since it is his body and his call.

                          I went through this myself with the death of my mother some years ago, so I understand the issues. In the end, it's all about the patient, as it should be.

                          Sorry to be so blunt, but medical matters are very straight forward to me, having dealt with them my entire working life.
                          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            Herbal isn't going to cut it, period. If he's delirious now, he'll be worse on the kind of "herbal" that you are considering.

                            But, since you disagree with his treatment, you should sit down with his physician and discuss it, along with him if he is able since it is his body and his call.

                            I went through this myself with the death of my mother some years ago, so I understand the issues. In the end, it's all about the patient, as it should be.

                            Sorry to be so blunt, but medical matters are very straight forward to me, having dealt with them my entire working life.
                            Blunt is good. Thanks to all for the advice.
                            Credo quia absurdum.


                            Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              My mother is a retired RN. A few years back someone I knew was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer in his pancreas. By the time they found it it had already spread to his stomach lining and liver. The doctors told him he had 2 months without chemo, 6 months with chemo, but he was gone either way. He chose the chemo, decided to fight it. In addition to the chemo drugs, they also put him on Lortab...which is partially an opioid. My mother said they never put you on morphine until they know there is no hope and are trying to ease you out of here as best as they can because morphine causes your organs to shut down. The guy was dead 2 weeks after he was first diagnosed with cancer. But he didn't die from cancer, he died from renal failure. The Lortab caused his kidneys to shut down and the specialist at the big hospital in Tulsa tried twice and couldn't get them restarted.

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