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  • #16
    Originally Posted by Bow View Post
    Well at least she looks after Germany and in turn the rest of Europe, even the stupid Britexes and hasnt run the deficict into trillions of dollars like you guys
    but I guess the US will solve its deficict problem by just printing more money.
    Of course, a large part of our deficit comes from the staggering costs of looking after you guys for over a century.
    You know...WWI, WWII, the Marshall Plan, the Cold War,keeping the oceans of the world safe for your commerce, inventing, producing and installing - for free to you - the global GPS system, the whole nuclear deterrent thing?

    Last edited by Mountain Man; 29 Dec 17, 14:56. Reason: spelling error
    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      Of course, a large part of our deficit comes form the staggering costs of looking after you guys for over a century.
      You know...WWI, WWII, the Marshall Plan, the Cold War,keeping the oceans of the world safe for your commerce, inventing, producing and installing - for free to you - the global GPS system, the whole nuclear deterrent thing?

      Not to mention creating the conditions necessary for a reunified Germany.
      We hunt the hunters

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      • #18
        Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
        Not to mention creating the conditions necessary for a reunified Germany.
        I was putting that under the overall cost of the Cold War, but absolutely. The sheer cost of garrisoning Germany for a half century would have bankrupted many nations.

        When my division - the Eighth infantry Division - was stood down and disbanded, the German government set the loss of that one division to their economy at $3 billion per year.
        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
          The Times is simply a political mouthpiece.
          Isn't the controlling interest in the NYT still held by Carlos Slim, a Mexican Billionaire?
          "Why is the Rum gone?"

          -Captain Jack

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
            Isn't the controlling interest in the NYT still held by Carlos Slim, a Mexican Billionaire?
            What does Google say?

            After doubling his stake in New York Times, Mexican billionaire Carlos Slim has become the top shareholder of the New York Times
            Well, looky there, sports fans...
            Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              Of course, a large part of our deficit comes form the staggering costs of looking after you guys for over a century.
              You know...WWI, WWII, the Marshall Plan, the Cold War,keeping the oceans of the world safe for your commerce, inventing, producing and installing - for free to you - the global GPS system, the whole nuclear deterrent thing?

              Britain paid off her debt in full in ’iirc’ 2006, and the US had quite a bit of help from without so it would be much better to say 'developing' rather than 'inventing' as most of the stuff was invented outside the USA. Not only that, foreign knowledge was needed in vast amounts for the US to get to where she is now.

              The USA had the advantage of a large population, huge industries, isolation and huge wealth.

              "the whole Nuclear deterrent thing" benefits and was really only developed for the interest (rightly) of the USA, with her allies being secondary.

              What the US has done for peace in the West has been magnificent and should be appreciated by us all, but let's remember that lots of it has come about due to an international input and at times, sacrifice.

              Paul
              ‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
              All human ills he can subdue,
              Or with a bauble or medal
              Can win mans heart for you;
              And many a blessing know to stew
              To make a megloamaniac bright;
              Give honour to the dainty Corse,
              The Pixie is a little shite.

              Comment


              • #22
                I'm not sure why Europeans hate the U.S. but I suspect the same forces that resulted in two World Wars play a part. While the EU is nominally a symbol of a reformed Europe the same dark forces lurk under the surface. Brexit was not so much about immigration or economics as the British tradition of individual liberty. The continent has never thrown off the preference for collectivist structures lead by elites. The EU represents little more than exchanging rule by "nobles" for rule by bureaucrats. The socialists leanings represent submission to the state instead of individual responsibility. Germany is doing through economic forces what it couldn't do through war, subjugating Western Europe. Keep in mind that the Nazis were national socialists.
                We hunt the hunters

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Dibble201Bty View Post
                  Britain paid off her debt in full in ’iirc’ 2006, and the US had quite a bit of help from without so it would be much better to say 'developing' rather than 'inventing' as most of the stuff was invented outside the USA. Not only that, foreign knowledge was needed in vast amounts for the US to get to where she is now.

                  The USA had the advantage of a large population, huge industries, isolation and huge wealth.

                  "the whole Nuclear deterrent thing" benefits and was really only developed for the interest (rightly) of the USA, with her allies being secondary.

                  What the US has done for peace in the West has been magnificent and should be appreciated by us all, but let's remember that lots of it has come about due to an international input and at times, sacrifice.

                  Paul
                  Not really, because the Cold War went on and the vast bulk of the nuclear deterrent was American. Remember, Britain's self-defence capabilities went steadily down hill over the entire Cold War period, ending up with GB opting out pretty much entirely and joining everyone else under the American nuclear umbrella.

                  Same for the rest of Europe except possibly the French, who care nothing for anyone or anything except themselves.

                  And all of that costs a fortune every second of every single day.
                  Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    And all of that costs a fortune every second of every single day.
                    Social security / health - as with most advanced economies - seem to be quite the burden above defence.

                    And wider defence activities - to which other nations also add - has not been totally against American economic interests.
                    History is not tragedy; to understand historical reality, it is sometimes better to not know the end of the story.

                    Pierre Vidal-Naquet

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Bluenose View Post
                      Social security / health - as with most advanced economies - seem to be quite the burden above defence.
                      In fact, in most European countries the cost of the social-welfare state has reached a point where it is almost impossible to find money for defense...

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        Not really, because the Cold War went on and the vast bulk of the nuclear deterrent was American. Remember, Britain's self-defence capabilities went steadily down hill over the entire Cold War period, ending up with GB opting out pretty much entirely and joining everyone else under the American nuclear umbrella.

                        Same for the rest of Europe except possibly the French, who care nothing for anyone or anything except themselves.

                        And all of that costs a fortune every second of every single day.
                        Money yes! But it still needs lots of know-how to make it feasible. Money can't buy it alone, but great minds can get together from different nations to make it so.

                        Paul
                        ‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
                        All human ills he can subdue,
                        Or with a bauble or medal
                        Can win mans heart for you;
                        And many a blessing know to stew
                        To make a megloamaniac bright;
                        Give honour to the dainty Corse,
                        The Pixie is a little shite.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                          In fact, in most European countries the cost of the social-welfare state has reached a point where it is almost impossible to find money for defense...
                          Really?

                          Germany is running a budget surplus, and spending 1.2% of GDP on defence.

                          Greece is spending 2.6%, and has some economic problems.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
                            I'm not sure why Europeans hate the U.S. but I suspect the same forces that resulted in two World Wars play a part. While the EU is nominally a symbol of a reformed Europe the same dark forces lurk under the surface. Brexit was not so much about immigration or economics as the British tradition of individual liberty. The continent has never thrown off the preference for collectivist structures lead by elites. The EU represents little more than exchanging rule by "nobles" for rule by bureaucrats. The socialists leanings represent submission to the state instead of individual responsibility. ...
                            Agreed, but it isn't just Europe that has this ingrained aversion to the individual and to personal independence. In the Middle East, they practice "submission" to a pervasive religion, and the men who are most talented at exploiting that rule over all else. Latin America and Africa flounder in corruption and constant small-scale violence to varying degrees.

                            East Asia is somewhat different. In China and a couple of smaller nations, they still have Communism that functions on the Political level, but they have something in common with most others; this modernized and all-intrusive version of Confucianism that stifles "Thinking outside the Box"... but that seems to be slipping, somewhat. If we can encourage them to come out of their mental shells, and use their minds for something move than data-storage, then maybe there will be hope for the future.

                            As for us, well, who the hell knows? Standing inside the problem does not always give one the best view of the situation.
                            "Why is the Rum gone?"

                            -Captain Jack

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Aber View Post
                              Really?

                              Germany is running a budget surplus, and spending 1.2% of GDP on defence.

                              Greece is spending 2.6%, and has some economic problems.
                              1,2 % is below what was promised to NATO .

                              The surplus will be given to the migrants, while millions of German pensioners are living in poverty .

                              The only way to increase the defence budget is to increase taxes,but as taxes are already increasing to pay for the migrants ....

                              Most Western European countries are bankrupt .

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Aber View Post
                                Really?

                                As leader of the centre right CDU that's a bit of a surprise.
                                The CDU is centre left with as chief a former communist .

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