Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

NATO Allies Still Block US Convoy Movements in Europe

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • NATO Allies Still Block US Convoy Movements in Europe

    So much for a fast response to Russian threats,

    Two Army brigade commanders said Wednesday the continuing problem of red tape and restrictions to cross-border movements in Europe pose a major challenge to forming a credible deterrent.

    "Europe can be a tough operating environment, particularly with regards to freedom of movement," said Col. Clair Gill, commander of the 1,800 troops of the 10th Combat Aviation Brigade (CAB) of the 10th Mountain Division out of Fort Drum, New York.
    Coordinating movements across multiple borders involves weeks of planning and clearances, and any one error can jeopardize an entire large operation," Gill said.

    "Our brigade can move across Europe when needed," said Col. Michael Simmering, commander of the 3,500 troops of the 3rd Armored Brigade Combat Team of the 4th Infantry Division out of Fort Carson, Colorado.

    However, "It is no secret among the senior leadership and it's definitely not a secret to us -- freedom of movement is and remains the number one challenge in the U.S. Army Europe area of operations," he said.

    Simmering and Gill spoke at an Army Pentagon briefing on the lessons learned following the completion of nine-month rotations of their commands in Europe.

    Both echoed Lt. Gen. Ben Hodges, who was retiring Wednesday following three years as commander of U.S. Army Europe, on making USAREUR a more agile force and improving interoperability with NATO allies.

    Hodges is succeeded in the role by his former deputy, Maj. Gen. Tim McGuire, who will serve as acting commander while the Army searches for a permanent replacement.

    In addition to problems crossing borders, Gill said he found that he needed a quick fix to navigational difficulties his UH-60 Black Hawk helicopters experienced in coordinating with the GPS systems used in Europe.

    In the U.S., the Black Hawks can rely on ground-based systems for navigation when flying on instruments in clouds and fog, he said, but Europe mostly uses satellite GPS.

    "We knew it was a potential issue" before the 10th CAB deployed," Gill said. "We don't have that [advanced GPS] system in our Blackhawks right now," Gill said, and so the Black Hawks were initially limited to flying where there were ground-based systems.

    The Army came up with a solution that Gill described only as a "box" installed on the helicopters to allow them to navigate by satellite. "It would allow the unit that's currently in theater to fly in that satellite-based environment" while the Army works on a permanent fix, he said.

    On the cross-border problem, Simmering noted that Hodges had backed a proposal for the creation of a military "Schengen zone" in Europe. The so-called "Schengen zone" was created by 26 European states to abolish passport checks and other types of border controls at their mutual borders.

    The current border checks pose "a system-wide challenge for everybody at this point in time," he said. Trying to move units quickly across borders "is something we experienced frustrations with routinely," he added.

    "The bottom line is freedom of movement is a challenge in Europe," Simmering said. 'I'm confident that we have people working on it. Do I see at my level right now as a brigade commander a readily apparent solution? I can't point to one."

    Gill gave the example of having one of his trucks break down at a border crossing. There was a rule against towing it into the next country. He brought in a wrecker, put the truck on the wrecker, drove the wrecker across the border, and then resumed towing the truck in the next country.

    Gill said he also had a problem in moving his brigade to ports to begin the trip back to Fort Drum.

    One country, which he declined to name, refused to allow the convoy to pass. So what did he do? "Circumnavigate," he said.
    https://www.military.com/daily-news/...ts-europe.html
    Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
    Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

  • #2
    I smell a replay of Xenophon's 10,000 coming up.
    "Why is the Rum gone?"

    -Captain Jack

    Comment


    • #3
      The Europeans need to pull their heads out of their collective ass. The way they are acting right now, the U.S. should let them deal with the Russians on their own.

      Comment


      • #4
        "Europe can be a tough operating environment, particularly with regards to freedom of movement," said Col. Clair Gill, commander of the 1,800 troops of the 10th Combat Aviation Brigade (CAB) of the 10th Mountain Division out of Fort Drum, New York.
        Coordinating movements across multiple borders involves weeks of planning and clearances, and any one error can jeopardize an entire large operation," Gill said.
        Imagine that
        High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.
        Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Co.

        Comment


        • #5
          And here I thought that the glorious EU was around to ease the whole borders thing...
          Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

          Comment


          • #6
            Well one does not need to be a brigadier general to know that moving a military unit across multiple nations states may involve some planning..

            You're not in Kansas anymore Col. Gill

            I sometimes wonder if these people think "Europe" is something like Disneyland.
            High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.
            Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Co.

            Comment


            • #7
              Maybe it's that before NATO the US Army kind of didn't ask about things like borders, or permission......

              Kind of like the Air Force flying in German Airspace. The first time we did it, we didn't ask permission, and we didn't land.
              Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

              Comment


              • #8
                This problem is known in EU. Just recently there was news that they are going ease bureaucracy when moving troops and weapons across borders. It is part of EU's defense cooperation package.
                Originally posted by google translation
                The goal of the tanker's Schengen area

                Finland also participates in a project aimed at creating a kind of military Schengen area. The aim is that, for example, tankers would cross borders more easily - of course, only by invitation.

                In connection with joint exercises, it has become clear how much laws and laws hamper the movement of troops, fleets and explosives between countries.

                Now, Finland will begin to unload these barriers to the movement of military equipment. It would also aim to improve bridges and roads that are too weak for heavy vehicles.
                https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-9966739
                "Religion can never reform mankind because religion is slavery"
                Robert G. Ingersoll 1833-1899

                Comment


                • #9
                  Eh - I wonder what country they had to "Circumnavigate", hope it wasn't Germany - they may have had to cross the Alps

                  For sure it's not impossible given that you just reopened an old Cold War base in Limburg here.


                  http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws.en...News/1.2563381

                  In August last year the US asked its Belgian, Dutch and German NATO allies if they had any bases available where the US could stock equipment. Belgian defence minister Steven Vandeput proposed the Zutendaal base in Limburg and has now announced that US equipment will soon be stored there.
                  High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.
                  Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Co.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm just trying to imagine what type of freedom of movement foreign armies would ever have in the US. If wr stop viewing the rest of the world as if they're beneath us, it becomes easier to understand their red tape.
                    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
                    - Benjamin Franklin

                    The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Well it's hard to imagine a US Mountain regiment stuck in traffic on the Brussels ring.

                      Presumably such movements have to be arranged beforehand and preferably escorted.

                      Other US commanders can figure it out apparently,

                      “We have certain reporting guidelines for moving heavier armored track vehicles across international borders,” said 1st Lt. John Nelson, the assistant SPO Transportation Officer and a Miami native. “M1A2 [Abrams Main Battle Tanks], M2 [Bradleys], and M109 [Paladins] are affected greatly by the Weapons of War Act, so it takes a lot of prior planning to move this equipment and needs to be at least six weeks out or more.”
                      https://www.dvidshub.net/news/184746...-across-europe

                      This comment pretty much nails it,

                      Robert Fritts ·
                      University of Louisville

                      In 1988 there were 5 full heavy Divisions in Germany, We railroaded everywhere for nearly 5 decades. How is this news? Just bring out 25-30 retired NCOs and GetRDone.
                      High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.
                      Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Co.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Well NATO is a waste of money, Russians wouldn’t be able to get past the border guards checking passports.
                        Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                        Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          You kidding, the Russians didn't have this much trouble moving armored divisions when they were in Germany.......
                          Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post
                            You kidding, the Russians didn't have this much trouble moving armored divisions when they were in Germany.......
                            That's because they had gulags, secret police, and could summarily shoot people...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
                              Well it's hard to imagine a US Mountain regiment stuck in traffic on the Brussels ring.

                              Presumably such movements have to be arranged beforehand and preferably escorted.

                              Other US commanders can figure it out apparently,



                              https://www.dvidshub.net/news/184746...-across-europe

                              This comment pretty much nails it,
                              I can certainly understand why the movement of heavy weapons and formations in and around the dense population centers of Western Europe needs to be documented and controlled. Are other NATO partners -- UK, Germany, maybe France, etc -- experiencing similar problems? The other thing that puzzles me is that since NATO is a unified command structure, and since most NATO members are also EU members, shouldn't cross-border movements require only one set of papers, not separate papers for each country in question?
                              I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                              Comment

                              Latest Topics

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X