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  • Gun Laws Did Not Stop the Shooter in NoCal

    Well, it appears the shooter who was killed by the police in northern California manufactured or obtained the guns illegally. They were not registered.

    So, once again, please tell me how gun laws stopped this man from killing people?

    I'm waiting with the bated breath.
    Of the shooter’s guns, Assistant Sheriff Phil Johnston said,
    “These firearms are manufactured illegally, we believe, by him at his home,” Johnston said. “They were obtained in an illegal manner, not through a legal process. They’re not registered.”

    So, on top of the shooter not being able to legally own guns, the guns he had were illegally manufactured.

    This is a sad reminder that gun laws cannot keep someone hell-bent on obtaining guns from doing so.

    https://www.redstate.com/prevaila/20...ssessing-guns/
    Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

    "Aim small, miss small."

  • #2
    Originally posted by Cheetah772 View Post
    Well, it appears the shooter who was killed by the police in northern California manufactured or obtained the guns illegally. They were not registered.

    So, once again, please tell me how gun laws stopped this man from killing people?

    I'm waiting with the bated breath.
    Of the shooter’s guns, Assistant Sheriff Phil Johnston said,
    “These firearms are manufactured illegally, we believe, by him at his home,” Johnston said. “They were obtained in an illegal manner, not through a legal process. They’re not registered.”

    So, on top of the shooter not being able to legally own guns, the guns he had were illegally manufactured.

    This is a sad reminder that gun laws cannot keep someone hell-bent on obtaining guns from doing so.

    https://www.redstate.com/prevaila/20...ssessing-guns/
    Nobody said that regulations will stop such shooting. The argument is that it will make it more difficult for someone to obtain a gun and will give one more opportunity to law enforcement to find such guns before it is too late..

    From

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...=.55cbd2f7db46

    edited for posting it here

    Guns recovered per 100,000 people from 2010 to 2016

    Orlando 3,960 guns

    Baltimore 2,578

    Washington, D.C. 1,540

    Los Angeles 908

    New York 322
    My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by pamak View Post
      Nobody said that regulations will stop such shooting. The argument is that it will make it more difficult for someone to obtain a gun and will give one more opportunity to law enforcement to find such guns before it is too late..

      From

      https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...=.55cbd2f7db46

      edited for posting it here
      By crying to do something like adding more restrictions doesn't really reduce gun violence, it simply empowers criminals and anyone determined enough to desire to murder someone. They're more likely to find ways to circumvent the gun laws than law-abiding citizens.

      Look at the report published by the state of Texas on correlations between owning guns and committing crimes. It really makes an armed society a nice society and less likely to murder someone.

      https://www.dps.texas.gov/RSD/LTC/Re...Report2016.pdf

      Compare that with UK's statistics on gun violence, a gun-free nation.

      https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...h2016/homicide

      UK has a .99 homicide rate per 100,000. Texas has 0.4 per 100,000 and Texas has over 1 million licensed gun owners. Which is better statistically? Texas.
      Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

      "Aim small, miss small."

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by pamak View Post
        Nobody said that regulations will stop such shooting. The argument is that it will make it more difficult for someone to obtain a gun and will give one more opportunity to law enforcement to find such guns before it is too late..

        From

        https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...=.55cbd2f7db46

        edited for posting it here
        So, why should we inconvenience the 98%+ of gun owners who legally obtained and own their weapons to try and make it harder for the few that do things illegally?

        I'll give you the answer... Because the government is taking the simple, lazy, way out. And, you agree with them apparently.

        Comment


        • #5
          What's wrong with making damn sure that the Gov't authorities are held accountable for non-compliance with the no-buy list?

          I'm getting sick of people telling me that more and stricter laws are needed. All that is needed is for the entities (ALL OF THEM) to follow the Law as written.

          Don't dun me because somebody dropped the ball in the Air Force. Look the malcreant up and bust him! HOLD SOMEBODY ACCOUNTABLE!

          GG
          "The will of a section rooted in self interest, should not outweigh the vital interests of a whole people." -Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain-

          "Fanatics of any sort are dangerous." -GG-

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Cheetah772 View Post
            By crying to do something like adding more restrictions doesn't really reduce gun violence, it simply empowers criminals and anyone determined enough to desire to murder someone. They're more likely to find ways to circumvent the gun laws than law-abiding citizens.

            Look at the report published by the state of Texas on correlations between owning guns and committing crimes. It really makes an armed society a nice society and less likely to murder someone.

            https://www.dps.texas.gov/RSD/LTC/Re...Report2016.pdf

            Compare that with UK's statistics on gun violence, a gun-free nation.

            https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...h2016/homicide

            UK has a .99 homicide rate per 100,000. Texas has 0.4 per 100,000 and Texas has over 1 million licensed gun owners. Which is better statistically? Texas.



            Where does your link show that Texas has 0.4 homicides per 100,000 residents? Page number please... I saw nothing of that sort in that report.



            Second, your argument implies that gun regulations will make Texas a European country like UK. This does not have to be the case...
            My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
              So, why should we inconvenience the 98%+ of gun owners who legally obtained and own their weapons to try and make it harder for the few that do things illegally?

              I'll give you the answer... Because the government is taking the simple, lazy, way out. And, you agree with them apparently.
              What do you mean that such regulations will be " inconvenient" to law-abiding citizens? For example, how will it be inconvenient to you or any other law abiding citizen if for example we have a database which actually includes ALL people with felony convictions?
              My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by pamak View Post
                Where does your link show that Texas has 0.4 homicides per 100,000 residents? Page number please... I saw nothing of that sort in that report.



                Second, your argument implies that gun regulations will make Texas a European country like UK. This does not have to be the case...
                I think you have to do the math on the report's statistics.

                But here's another article that uses the same report, it gives 0.4 per 100,000 for Texas.

                http://www.westernfreepress.com/2017...te-than-brits/
                Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

                "Aim small, miss small."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Everyone, from the government on down to the lowest citizen, shies away from addressing the root cause of gun violence - us. We're the problem. Our society is stressful, oriented to praise the useless and the narcissistic, and unwilling to apply rules and order where it is needed. Our family system is shot, or police forces are useless and unable to keep up with liberal judges and criminal-loving snowflakes, and we have no standards left at all.

                  We need to put families back together, instill discipline into our children and sweep the criminals and the riff-raff off of our streets.

                  Nothing less is going to change anything.
                  Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I wonder just how "manufactured at home" the gun was. It sounds kind of unusual.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cheetah772 View Post
                      I think you have to do the math on the report's statistics.

                      But here's another article that uses the same report, it gives 0.4 per 100,000 for Texas.

                      http://www.westernfreepress.com/2017...te-than-brits/
                      And this link verifies my suspicion...

                      There is NOTHING to indicate that UK has lower homicide rates than Texas.
                      In fact, your link gives a MUCH higher homicide rate for Texas than for the UK!

                      Your link says

                      Gun violence has been in the news lately, which has some Americans advocating British-style gun laws. The UK bans handguns, and in 2016 its per capita homicide rate was only 0.99 per 100,000 people. But while it’s true that Brits commit relatively few murders, there’s another group that commits even fewer. Who are they?

                      Legally-armed Texans.

                      Over a million people in Texas are licensed to carry a firearm, and the state publishes a report on the crimes they commit.
                      So, the rate you invoke includes ONLY a small portion of the Texas population who LEGALLY carry guns. So, you compare apples to oranges since the UK report includes the WHOLE population (including citizens who do not have a clean record and who by far are the ones who commit most of the crimes!)

                      I can go even farther to show that the actual report you tried to use initially shows in fact that the homicide in Texas is MUCH higher than the one in the UK

                      From your second source which apparently uses your initial link as its source, we read

                      In 2016, two were convicted of murder and another two were convicted of manslaughter. If they formed their own country, its per capita homicide rate would be about 0.4 per 100,000 residents.
                      Okay! So, 4 murder convictions means a rate of 0.4 per 100,000 residents. I am fine with this.

                      But this number is about convictions in 2016 of LICENSED GUN OWNERS.

                      What is the total number of convictions in Texas for 2016 (which includes licensed AND convicts who were not licensed gun owners)?

                      Go to your original link

                      page 2

                      You can see two columns. One is related to the Licensed gun owners which indeed includes 4 murder convictions (2 for CAPITAL MURDER BY TERROR THREAT/OTHER FELON and 2 for CAPITAL MURDER OF MULTIPLE PERSONS).

                      HOWEVER, the other column on the left of the one about the convictions of Licensed GUN owners has a total number of 84 convictions for CAPITAL murder in 2016, and a number of 218 simply "MURDERS' plus a number of 2 MURDER UNDER INFLUENCE OF SUDDEN PASSION!

                      This means that if somebody is honest with the data he uses and wants to make comparisons of murder rates between the UK and Texas he should START with a number of 304 murders of any kind in Texas for 2016
                      And if 4 murders according to your link imply a rate of 0.4 per 100,000 people in Texas, then 304 implies AS A START a rate of 76 times higher which means a murder rate of 30.4 per 100,000 people!


                      But this is not all! Notice that the article compares ALL UK "homicides" to just Texa's "murders". This means that they deliberately exclude all Texas' homicides which are not murders, such as involuntary manslaughter and so on...
                      And we can see that the report has a number of 88 for "manslaughter and a number of 36 for CRIM NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE


                      But this is not all!

                      Notice that all these numbers are about CONVICTIONS. And we know that not all crimes are solved. So, the report does not include ALL homicides or even murders in Texas for 2016! It just includes the crimes or murders that were solved and produced suspects which were eventually convicted!
                      Last edited by pamak; 15 Nov 17, 19:26.
                      My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Remember back to Patty Hearst and the Symbionese Liberation Army. There was a famous picture of Patty in a Bank showing off an automatic weapon. Yet when the safe house was hit later, all they found were M-1 Carbines that were altered in a Machine Shop. No one ever said where the automatic weapon had gone.. It was simple back then to alter the M-1 Carbine and I bet a trained Machinist can still do it. I don't know what this dude used, but as a criminal, he could get weapons illegally.

                        Pruitt
                        Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                        Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                        by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by pamak View Post
                          And this link verifies my suspicion...

                          There is NOTHING to indicate that UK has lower homicide rates than Texas.
                          In fact, your link gives a MUCH higher homicide rate for Texas than for the UK!

                          Your link says



                          So, the rate you invoke includes ONLY a small portion of the Texas population who LEGALLY carry guns. So, you compare apples to oranges since the UK report includes the WHOLE population (including citizens who do not have a clean record and who by far are the ones who commit most of the crimes!)

                          I can go even farther to show that the actual report you tried to use initially shows in fact that the homicide in Texas is MUCH higher than the one in the UK

                          From your second source which apparently uses your initial link as its source, we read



                          Okay! So, 4 murder convictions means a rate of 0.4 per 100,000 residents. I am fine with this.

                          But this number is about convictions in 2016 of LICENSED GUN OWNERS.

                          What is the total number of convictions in Texas for 2016 (which includes licensed AND convicts who were not licensed gun owners)?

                          Go to your original link

                          page 2

                          You can see two columns. One is related to the Licensed gun owners which indeed includes 4 murder convictions (2 for CAPITAL MURDER BY TERROR THREAT/OTHER FELON and 2 for CAPITAL MURDER OF MULTIPLE PERSONS).

                          HOWEVER, the other column on the left of the one about the convictions of Licensed GUN owners has a total number of 84 convictions for CAPITAL murder in 2016, and a number of 218 simply "MURDERS' plus a number of 2 MURDER UNDER INFLUENCE OF SUDDEN PASSION!

                          This means that if somebody is honest with the data he uses and wants to make comparisons of murder rates between the UK and Texas he should START with a number of 304 murders f any kind for 2016!

                          But this is not all! Notice that the article compares UK "homicides" to just Texa's "murders". This means that they deliberately exclude all homicides which are not murders, such as involuntary manslaughters and so on...
                          And we can see that the report has a number of 88 for "manslaughter and a number of 36 for CRIM NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE


                          But this is not all!

                          Notice that all these numbers are about CONVICTIONS. And we know that not all crimes are solved. So, the report does not include ALL homicides oe even murders in Texas for 2016! It just includes the crimes that were solved and produced suspects which were eventually convicted!
                          The topic was to focus on GUNS, that is if legal gun owners in Texas formed their own country, composed entirely of gun owners only, they would have a lower homicide rate than UK's population.
                          Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

                          "Aim small, miss small."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cheetah772 View Post
                            The topic was to focus on GUNS, that is if legal gun owners in Texas formed their own country, composed entirely of gun owners only, they would have a lower homicide rate than UK's population.
                            And this is why I say that they try to compare apples to oranges when they compare a portion of the Texas population to the whole UK population. On top of this I pointed that they compare a HOMICIDE rate per 100,000 in the UK to a MURDER rate in Texas per 100,000 of legal gun owners. Notice that homicide includes convictions such as for manslaughter which the authors completely ignored. And on top of this they include only murder CONVICTIONS for Texas and compare the number to the total homicide rate in the UK. So, they do not even include all murders that took place in Texas in 2016, including those that did not lead to any arrest or conviction!

                            My rough calculations show that Texas has AT LEAST a rate of 30 CONVICTIONS for MURDER per 100,000 of the Texas population. Homicide convictions are even more and total homicide rates are even more than that! This is MUCH higher compared to the homicide rate of 9.9 in the UK!

                            The point is this: The gun owners in your report have a profile of a law abiding citizen which they will keep regardless of the gun law regulations. it is not that this demographic will start shooting at people and being convicted for crimes if Texas becomes like the UK after the application of some strict UK-style laws!
                            Last edited by pamak; 15 Nov 17, 19:41.
                            My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              By the way, when I will have more time, I will investigate if the legal gun owners in Texas are indeed just 1 million or if this is another attempt by the authors to mislead the public.. At first glance the number seems too low for a big State like Texas.

                              Okay, it did not take long...

                              http://txcha.org/texas-ltc-informati...can-you-carry/

                              There are non-licensed and licensed gun owners.
                              My nose detected the BS when saw the number of 1 million...

                              So on top of everything else, the original claim does not even show the murder rate among the total gun-owning population. They use a portion of the gun-owners who are licensed to carry holders...
                              Last edited by pamak; 15 Nov 17, 20:20.
                              My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                              Comment

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