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  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
    Isn't it strange, how the rest of the world wants to use us as a combination of Great Satan, Policeman, Bank, and Protector, all at the same time?

    It must be because of all the people here that like it that way...
    .


    Ever known a drug-addict to step away from their habit voluntarily, without any outside prompting at all?
    Its about the same sort of thing.
    And the very sam people who would react to that question by pointing out how many addicts are in the US are also dead-set against a wall on the southern border to keep them out.
    I don't pretend to understand it, just not to like it. This isn't what my parents fought for, or myself, for that matter. We never worked and paid taxes so that the rest of the world could live off of us for free.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Exorcist
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    [FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"]Agreed, and that, I think, is just the tip of a very large iceberg. Frankly, the entire world seems to have assumed the attitude that America is the panacea for all ills, social problems, hatreds and needs
    Isn't it strange, how the rest of the world wants to use us as a combination of Great Satan, Policeman, Bank, and Protector, all at the same time?

    It must be because of all the people here that like it that way...
    .
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    There are seven BILLION people on this planet, and only about 300 million or so live in America. Time for the other 6.7 billion to step up.

    Ever known a drug-addict to step away from their habit voluntarily, without any outside prompting at all?
    Its about the same sort of thing.
    And the very sam people who would react to that question by pointing out how many addicts are in the US are also dead-set against a wall on the southern border to keep them out.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
    Re-negotiating these trade treaties is a very big deal.

    The Limits of American Patience



    https://amgreatness.com/2018/04/09/t...ican-patience/
    Agreed, and that, I think, is just the tip of a very large iceberg. Frankly, the entire world seems to have assumed the attitude that America is the panacea for all ills, social problems, hatreds and needs.

    There are seven BILLION people on this planet, and only about 300 million or so live in America. Time for the other 6.7 billion to step up.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Exorcist
    replied
    Re-negotiating these trade treaties is a very big deal.

    The Limits of American Patience

    Mexico assumed that a rich neighbor could, in perpetuity, serve as a refuge of last resort for its impoverished citizens, thereby providing a safety valve and precluding any need for its own internal reform.

    The United States was supposedly so affluent that it could both offer entitlements to illegal aliens and, given such aid, not care whether many of them sent $60 billion back home (what is a mere $60 billion out of a multi-trillion dollar economy?) to Central American and Mexico.

    When occasionally the United States recoiled a bit, Mexico could always accuse an essentially open-border America of being restrictionist and xenophobic. One wonders how exactly would Mexico’s hostility be expressed—by vows not to receive remittances, or to demand repatriation of its lost citizens, or unilaterally to leave NAFTA, or to elect a nationalist president who would build a wall?

    China ignores international rules in various aspects of its trade policies. It skirts copyright and patent laws. It expropriates U.S. technology. It hacks and runs extensive commercial espionage enterprises.

    Trade surpluses are built into Beijing’s DNA. All of the above is predicated on several assumptions: 1) America shrugs that such laxity will “modernize” and “Westernize” China, 2) America is supposedly so wealthy it can afford the asymmetry, 3) Americans most hurt by unfavorable trade are not those who craft its politics, 4) China would never allow what it demands from the U.S., 5) China interprets magnanimity as naiveté and weakness, not as outreach to be returned in kind. To suggest that a reckoning is needed is akin to wanting an all-out “trade war.”
    https://amgreatness.com/2018/04/09/t...ican-patience/

    Leave a comment:


  • The Exorcist
    replied
    Originally posted by Persephone View Post
    Trump administration will try to renegotiate and re-enter the TPP. This is good news!


    Of course it is, he just wants to negotiate a fair deal, not one that screws his own people over.
    That's us, by the way, even those of you who say he's not "your" President.

    Leave a comment:


  • Persephone
    replied
    BUMP

    Trump administration will try to renegotiate and re-enter the TPP. This is good news!


    Leave a comment:


  • Reimnitz
    replied
    Originally posted by Nikki View Post
    If Trump want more businesses to come back to the US, all he need to do is support higher wages in Mexico and Canada.
    Which is exactly what Trump is negotiating for. Trump want higher wages in Mexico to deter companies from moving south of the border. He's also pushing for better working conditions in Mexico. Redrafting NAFTA should be advantageous for all, if done properly.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nikki
    replied
    Originally posted by Skoblin View Post
    This is not how the real world works. All those businesses which have invested in Mexico in order to take advantage of cheap wages would object to attempts to artificially raise wages in Mexico. Moreover, those local Mexican communities wherein these investments have been made would also object, concerned that attempts to raise wages in Mexico may drive jobs away. The existing system and arrangement has created its own self-interested constituencies on both sides of the border along with corresponding lobbying forces and political contacts.
    If Trump want more businesses to come back to the US, all he need to do is support higher wages in Mexico and Canada.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sparlingo
    replied
    Originally posted by BELGRAVE View Post
    Because Mr Trump is only interested in bilateral rather than multinational trade deals.
    This reasoning for this preference is obvious. With bilateral negotiations the USA will always dominate because ,as an entity, it will always be larger than the power it's dealing with. This advantage does not hold good in dealing with a syndicate of nations.
    In 1988 Canada and the US negotiated a pretty good bilateral FTA after a tough negotiation. In 1994 it was the United States that wanted a three way deal and it was Canada that opposed it but eventually Canada went along with it to produce NAFTA. The problem now is this - if NAFTA is abrogated how does the USA get a better deal with either of the other two after the USA presented tough proposals that were rejected by both other countries in the current negotiations? Neither Canada nor Mexico are going to accept terms that they just rejected, internal domestic politics will prevent it. It is possible that Canada will fall back on the previous FTA (which was only suspended) and Mexico will be left out in the cold. It's also possible that the previous Canada/US FTA will not be reactivated and both Canada and mexico will turn away from the USA. And it's also possible that "ZOMBIE NAFTA" will soldier on indefinitely because NAFTA could be abrogated by the executive but Congressional implementation legislation would not be repealed. It's a very messy situation but both Canada and mexico now have their backs up against accepting what is perceived as unreasonable US demands that would not be accepted either bilaterally or multi-laterally.

    Leave a comment:


  • BELGRAVE
    replied
    Originally posted by craven View Post
    Then no NAFTA for them and it only between the US and Canada

    That the end result of what Trump has been pushing
    Because Mr Trump is only interested in bilateral rather than multinational trade deals.
    This reasoning for this preference is obvious. With bilateral negotiations the USA will always dominate because ,as an entity, it will always be larger than the power it's dealing with. This advantage does not hold good in dealing with a syndicate of nations.

    Leave a comment:


  • craven
    replied
    Originally posted by Skoblin View Post
    This is not how the real world works. All those businesses which have invested in Mexico in order to take advantage of cheap wages would object to attempts to artificially raise wages in Mexico. Moreover, those local Mexican communities wherein these investments have been made would also object, concerned that attempts to raise wages in Mexico may drive jobs away. The existing system and arrangement has created its own self-interested constituencies on both sides of the border along with corresponding lobbying forces and political contacts.
    Then no NAFTA for them and it only between the US and Canada

    That the end result of what Trump has been pushing

    Leave a comment:


  • Sparlingo
    replied
    The next round of NAFTA talks start Friday in Mexico and the Canadian side has announced it will be taking a hard line in the negotiations.

    https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/new...+Article+Links

    Leave a comment:


  • Sparlingo
    replied
    Originally posted by Skoblin View Post
    This is not how the real world works. All those businesses which have invested in Mexico in order to take advantage of cheap wages would object to attempts to artificially raise wages in Mexico. Moreover, those local Mexican communities wherein these investments have been made would also object, concerned that attempts to raise wages in Mexico may drive jobs away. The existing system and arrangement has created its own self-interested constituencies on both sides of the border along with corresponding lobbying forces and political contacts.
    Improved labour standards under NAFTA is being pressed by Canada at the current negotiations. It is more in the form of incremental improvements and a way forward than it would be a sudden shift to Canadian and American wage scales .

    Leave a comment:


  • Skoblin
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparlingo View Post
    To keep NAFTA and to raise national income and boost the economy. They would still have a wage advantage but it would be narrower and the capital investments in plants are already there.
    This is not how the real world works. All those businesses which have invested in Mexico in order to take advantage of cheap wages would object to attempts to artificially raise wages in Mexico. Moreover, those local Mexican communities wherein these investments have been made would also object, concerned that attempts to raise wages in Mexico may drive jobs away. The existing system and arrangement has created its own self-interested constituencies on both sides of the border along with corresponding lobbying forces and political contacts.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sparlingo
    replied
    Originally posted by Skoblin View Post
    Why would Mexico want to raise wages? Cheap wages are what brings jobs to Mexico in the first place.
    To keep NAFTA and to raise national income and boost the economy. They would still have a wage advantage but it would be narrower and the capital investments in plants are already there.

    Leave a comment:

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