Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

FBI database for gun buyers missing millions of records

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #76
    We have gone around and around on this topic over the years, there are countless and I mean literally countless cases where people who have been diagnosed as insane, paranoid, schizophrenic, manic depressive, suicidal, threats to society and to themselves by doctors who have dedicated their lives to working with those with mental health issues.
    Cases where medical professionals have warned judges and law enforcement that a patient was dangerous and shouldn’t be released or in some cases like the Virginia Tech shooter had been waving red flags even to the point where the doctors themselves felt threatened, and teachers refused to allow him into classes, molt to watch helplessly while the patient carried it mass killings.
    We are told, “there is no system”, we are told the victims civil rights are secondary to that of the killers.
    We could fill up page after page of police press conferences where the spokesman for law enforcement informs us that the suspect had a long record of violence, mental illness and drug abuse.
    But none of that matters to some people.
    If we say there is no justice we are naive, if we suggest more mental health care for the suspect earlier in their life may have changed the outcome we are stomping out their rights, if we say the system failed the victims we are told that we are like little children who do not understand the situation, that they and they alone know better because they don’t give a damn, and neither should we.
    Just arm up. Don’t be a cry baby.and worse, don’t be a Nazi cry baby.
    And now we are told that many LEOs also suffer mental illness and there’s nothing wrong with having someone with a badge and a gun working in one of the most stressful jobs in the world while being mentally ill.
    What a country.
    Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
    Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
      We have gone around and around on this topic over the years, there are countless and I mean literally countless cases where people who have been diagnosed as insane, paranoid, schizophrenic, manic depressive, suicidal, threats to society and to themselves by doctors who have dedicated their lives to working with those with mental health issues.
      Cases where medical professionals have warned judges and law enforcement that a patient was dangerous and shouldn’t be released or in some cases like the Virginia Tech shooter had been waving red flags even to the point where the doctors themselves felt threatened, and teachers refused to allow him into classes, molt to watch helplessly while the patient carried it mass killings.
      We are told, “there is no system”, we are told the victims civil rights are secondary to that of the killers.
      We could fill up page after page of police press conferences where the spokesman for law enforcement informs us that the suspect had a long record of violence, mental illness and drug abuse.
      But none of that matters to some people.
      If we say there is no justice we are naive, if we suggest more mental health care for the suspect earlier in their life may have changed the outcome we are stomping out their rights, if we say the system failed the victims we are told that we are like little children who do not understand the situation, that they and they alone know better because they don’t give a damn, and neither should we.
      Just arm up. Don’t be a cry baby.and worse, don’t be a Nazi cry baby.
      And now we are told that many LEOs also suffer mental illness and there’s nothing wrong with having someone with a badge and a gun working in one of the most stressful jobs in the world while being mentally ill.
      What a country.
      The term metal illness covers a huge spectrum of health problems, and each individual will manage their own metal health problems differently.

      So it is entirely reasonable for someone to suggest that someone with mental health problems shouldn't automatically be excluded from certain jobs, whilst also saying that there should be tighter screening for those with mental health problems who wish to purchase firearms.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by pamak View Post
        There is a similar question regarding how far you are willing to go to take the constitutional right of such veteran patients to have guns...
        Until adjudicated by a court of law, I will allow anyone to have guns. PTSD or not.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Naffenea View Post
          Until adjudicated by a court of law, I will allow anyone to have guns. PTSD or not.
          I agree with this. I ask the question because those who talk about mental illness and gun control imply that they want tougher laws (which the courts must follow). The moment one starts the conversation about mental illness, he also starts a conversation about where to draw the legal red line. regarding who is dangerous or not to have guns...
          My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Naffenea View Post
            Until adjudicated by a court of law, I will allow anyone to have guns. PTSD or not.
            I have presented documented cases of families fighting to get children treated for severe mental illness issues for 20 years or more, fighting judges to have a loved one institutionalized because neither child or parents can handle the situation only to be denied over and over again.
            Ultimately to have the mentally ill person murder a family member in a hallucinogenic psychotic episode.
            The system that doesn’t exist prevented those parents from getting care their child needed, care that mental healthcare professionals agreed the patient needed, only to have judges deny the patient the care that would have helped them live a more normal life.
            Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
            Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

            Comment


            • #81
              Are these patients needing mental health care supposed to have it paid by the state? What if the state did not budget enough funds to pay for new patients?

              My younger daughter is mentally handicapped and my ex and I have heard the local school board bureaucrats rail about "wasting money" they wanted to spend elsewhere on students that can not benefit. It doesn't matter what the Feds mandate about providing services if the system fights you ever step of the way.

              It is possible the Judges were told there was no money to house more patients.

              Pruitt
              Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

              Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

              by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                Are these patients needing mental health care supposed to have it paid by the state? What if the state did not budget enough funds to pay for new patients?

                My younger daughter is mentally handicapped and my ex and I have heard the local school board bureaucrats rail about "wasting money" they wanted to spend elsewhere on students that can not benefit. It doesn't matter what the Feds mandate about providing services if the system fights you ever step of the way.

                It is possible the Judges were told there was no money to house more patients.

                Pruitt
                That is a legitimate question. My son is a teacher, when the economy tanked many teachers were let go in our state, he taught science and mathematics, working with kids with delinquency issues, the budget cuts eliminated those programs.
                For the next five years he “taught” special needs students at a high school funded by federal funds.
                All of the students were 18 to 22, none of them had any ability to function without 24hr care, the parents and guardians just needed a babysitter. After leaving the school each student face a lifetime of livin a care facility, but Paul was expected to teach them basic education and teach them to function in real life situations such as riding a bus, shopping etc.
                His day consisted of changing diapers, hand feeding his students and being bitten, scratched, stabbed with utensils, pencils scratched with fingernails toenails filling out police reports and dealing with parents who just wanted the kids out of the house.
                That was a waste of money. Not a single student had the ability to function without nursing care.
                This thread has wandered a bit off the top of the OP, and I take the responsibility for that, but it does show just how poorly our society deals with these issues.
                We live in denial until someone goes off. We have laws we don’t enforce, apparently laws our law enforcement agencies willing ignore.
                I don’t have an answer.
                Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
                  I have presented documented cases of families fighting to get children treated for severe mental illness issues for 20 years or more, fighting judges to have a loved one institutionalized because neither child or parents can handle the situation only to be denied over and over again.
                  Ultimately to have the mentally ill person murder a family member in a hallucinogenic psychotic episode.
                  The system that doesn’t exist prevented those parents from getting care their child needed, care that mental healthcare professionals agreed the patient needed, only to have judges deny the patient the care that would have helped them live a more normal life.
                  That's life. It's scary. I'm not going to disarm everyone else.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
                    That is a legitimate question. My son is a teacher, when the economy tanked many teachers were let go in our state, he taught science and mathematics, working with kids with delinquency issues, the budget cuts eliminated those programs.
                    For the next five years he “taught” special needs students at a high school funded by federal funds.
                    All of the students were 18 to 22, none of them had any ability to function without 24hr care, the parents and guardians just needed a babysitter. After leaving the school each student face a lifetime of livin a care facility, but Paul was expected to teach them basic education and teach them to function in real life situations such as riding a bus, shopping etc.
                    His day consisted of changing diapers, hand feeding his students and being bitten, scratched, stabbed with utensils, pencils scratched with fingernails toenails filling out police reports and dealing with parents who just wanted the kids out of the house.
                    That was a waste of money. Not a single student had the ability to function without nursing care.
                    This thread has wandered a bit off the top of the OP, and I take the responsibility for that, but it does show just how poorly our society deals with these issues.
                    We live in denial until someone goes off. We have laws we don’t enforce, apparently laws our law enforcement agencies willing ignore.
                    I don’t have an answer.
                    Your son was "teaching" Severe and Profoundly Handicapped students. Most likely he was there because he was a male and could physically restrain the students. My daughter was first taught at a "special school" with similar students. There were some less severely handicapped students in the younger classes.

                    Keysha moved up to a class with a woman teacher that was handicapped (something wrong with her leg). We expressed our concerns about this because Keysha was agile and very mobile. We pointed out that the classroom had a door that opened to the outside. It was supposed to be always locked, but "stuff" happens and they could not guarantee it would always stay locked. There were aides in this class but they mostly worked with the wheelchair bound students. This teacher was not happy about the thought of having to chase Keysha. We ended up having Keysha home bound taught.

                    Your son should have had aides to do most of the feeding, cleaning and changing the nappies. If he did not, there is something terribly wrong. Also different states react differently to different Federal mandates. In Pennsylvania Keysha was bussed to a facility that housed handicapped students from three or so school districts. In Louisiana, they were instead moving the handicapped into regular schools albeit, in their own "special" classrooms. We checked out the school they wanted to place her in. We found it was a temporary classroom in the school parking lot that had no close access to the bathroom. We also saw she would be the least capable performing student in her class. We were able to keep her in her old school where she was the best performing student.

                    There is no magic solution to educating the handicapped.

                    Pruitt
                    Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                    Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                    by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Naffenea View Post
                      That's life. It's scary. I'm not going to disarm everyone else.
                      Who said anything about disarming you?
                      Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                      Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                        Your son was "teaching" Severe and Profoundly Handicapped students. Most likely he was there because he was a male and could physically restrain the students. My daughter was first taught at a "special school" with similar students. There were some less severely handicapped students in the younger classes.

                        Keysha moved up to a class with a woman teacher that was handicapped (something wrong with her leg). We expressed our concerns about this because Keysha was agile and very mobile. We pointed out that the classroom had a door that opened to the outside. It was supposed to be always locked, but "stuff" happens and they could not guarantee it would always stay locked. There were aides in this class but they mostly worked with the wheelchair bound students. This teacher was not happy about the thought of having to chase Keysha. We ended up having Keysha home bound taught.

                        Your son should have had aides to do most of the feeding, cleaning and changing the nappies. If he did not, there is something terribly wrong. Also different states react differently to different Federal mandates. In Pennsylvania Keysha was bussed to a facility that housed handicapped students from three or so school districts. In Louisiana, they were instead moving the handicapped into regular schools albeit, in their own "special" classrooms. We checked out the school they wanted to place her in. We found it was a temporary classroom in the school parking lot that had no close access to the bathroom. We also saw she would be the least capable performing student in her class. We were able to keep her in her old school where she was the best performing student.

                        There is no magic solution to educating the handicapped.

                        Pruitt
                        He had a few aides come and go, but it is hard to keep them with the budgeting. Paul stuck it out for four years. He was lucky if an aide lasted one semester.
                        It was very emotionally draining.
                        He has gone back to teaching math and science but has remained in contact with some of the special needs stand their families.
                        You have more insight into the topic than anyone on this forum from the perspective of a parent.
                        Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                        Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

                        Comment

                        Latest Topics

                        Collapse

                        Working...
                        X