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  • #61
    Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
    GOD HAS SPOKEN!
    HE AND ONLY HE KNOWS ALL, SEES ALL,
    Geez, AJR. Do you really believe you are the only man on earth whose concern and opinions matter?
    I think that of the two of us, I'm the only one who knows what he is talking about.

    Your solution, which pops up every time there is a mass shooting, it to suspend the Bill of Rights and imprison the mentally ill.

    Given that your obsession on the topic is such that you would be a prime candidate for imprisonment and forcibly-administered drugs, I find that rather short-sighted.

    You cannot imprison people for being mentally ill without due process, and everyone here with any experience in the business agrees it is hard.

    Likewise, you cannot force people to take medication against their will without due process, and that is even harder.

    Through a blizzard of inalienable facts you insist that everyone is out of step but you.
    Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
      I think that of the two of us, I'm the only one who knows what he is talking about.

      Your solution, which pops up every time there is a mass shooting, it to suspend the Bill of Rights and imprison the mentally ill.

      Given that your obsession on the topic is such that you would be a prime candidate for imprisonment and forcibly-administered drugs, I find that rather short-sighted.

      You cannot imprison people for being mentally ill without due process, and everyone here with any experience in the business agrees it is hard.

      Likewise, you cannot force people to take medication against their will without due process, and that is even harder.

      Through a blizzard of inalienable facts you insist that everyone is out of step but you.
      You are the only one in this conversation who has actually placed people who are insane behind bars.
      So maybe there is something deeper going on here.
      We imprison more mentally ill people than any other western nation. Is there any evidence you can provide that can prove this approach is working?
      Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
        You are the only one in this conversation who has actually placed people who are insane behind bars.
        So maybe there is something deeper going on here.
        We imprison more mentally ill people than any other western nation. Is there any evidence you can provide that can prove this approach is working?
        The vast majority stay behind bars for the duration of their sentence, so yes, it is 'working'.

        They weren't sent there for a cure, which does not exist, but as a consequence for their actions, just like everyone who goes to prison. And like the vast majority, prison does not help them.

        We've had this conversation a dozen times. Your obsession kicks in and you want to lock up the mentally ill simply because they are ill.

        This isn't Nazi Germany, and confinement does not cure mental illness.
        Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
          The vast majority stay behind bars for the duration of their sentence, so yes, it is 'working'.

          They weren't sent there for a cure, which does not exist, but as a consequence for their actions, just like everyone who goes to prison. And like the vast majority, prison does not help them.

          We've had this conversation a dozen times. Your obsession kicks in and you want to lock up the mentally ill simply because they are ill.

          This isn't Nazi Germany, and confinement does not cure mental illness.
          Typical, now I知 a Nazi because I believe mental illness can be treated.
          And you call me obsessed.
          Last edited by Urban hermit; 15 Nov 17, 10:35.
          Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
            I think that of the two of us, I'm the only one who knows what he is talking about.

            Your solution, which pops up every time there is a mass shooting, it to suspend the Bill of Rights and imprison the mentally ill.

            Given that your obsession on the topic is such that you would be a prime candidate for imprisonment and forcibly-administered drugs, I find that rather short-sighted.

            You cannot imprison people for being mentally ill without due process, and everyone here with any experience in the business agrees it is hard.

            Likewise, you cannot force people to take medication against their will without due process, and that is even harder.

            Through a blizzard of inalienable facts you insist that everyone is out of step but you.
            There is an argument to be made, however, for removing those from the streets whose mental condition constitutes a threat to the safety of others.

            There is a very real issue of responsibility on the part of society.
            Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
              Typical, now I知 a Nazi because I believe mental illness can be treated.
              And you call me obsessed.
              Mental illness can indeed be treated, but the individual must be an active participant in the process at every step of the way. The patient has to want to get better.
              Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
                Typical, now I知 a Nazi because I believe mental illness can be treated.
                And you call me obsessed.
                You've never claimed it could be treated. Your endless posts revolve around confining the mentally ill, which besides being completely against the Bill of Rights, has a centuries-old record of failure.

                And yes, I call you obsessed. And like you, the Nazi Party wanted the mentally ill confined.
                Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Actually the Nazis thought funds spent on the Mentally Handicapped was wasted. They pushed through euthanasia laws.

                  Pruitt
                  Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                  Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                  by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                    You've never claimed it could be treated. Your endless posts revolve around confining the mentally ill, which besides being completely against the Bill of Rights, has a centuries-old record of failure.

                    And yes, I call you obsessed. And like you, the Nazi Party wanted the mentally ill confined.
                    You full of it
                    Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Guys find something else to play with.

                      Pruitt
                      Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                      Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                      by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        Mental illness can indeed be treated, but the individual must be an active participant in the process at every step of the way. The patient has to want to get better.
                        I agree, schizophrenia is treatable but it life long struggle.
                        Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                          I think that of the two of us, I'm the only one who knows what he is talking about.

                          Your solution, which pops up every time there is a mass shooting, it to suspend the Bill of Rights and imprison the mentally ill.

                          Given that your obsession on the topic is such that you would be a prime candidate for imprisonment and forcibly-administered drugs, I find that rather short-sighted.

                          You cannot imprison people for being mentally ill without due process, and everyone here with any experience in the business agrees it is hard.

                          Likewise, you cannot force people to take medication against their will without due process, and that is even harder.

                          Through a blizzard of inalienable facts you insist that everyone is out of step but you.
                          I wouldn't imprison the mentally ill, but I would demand a guarantee that they were: a) perfectly safe around the rest of us, and b) taking their full medication as prescribed.

                          I would place the life of the mental health professional who gave me that guarantee on the block as payment for any violation.

                          You're going to find that not one single mental health "professional" will ever guarantee his diagnosis of "safe and sane", which means society needs another way to protect itself.

                          Prison is definitely not the answer, but neither is wandering around the streets talking to themselves and waiting for answers from the little voices in their heads.


                          As for suspending the Bill of Rights, I would prefer to suspend our government until we can straighten it out.
                          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            I wouldn't imprison the mentally ill, but I would demand a guarantee that they were: a) perfectly safe around the rest of us, and b) taking their full medication as prescribed.

                            I would place the life of the mental health professional who gave me that guarantee on the block as payment for any violation.

                            You're going to find that not one single mental health "professional" will ever guarantee his diagnosis of "safe and sane", which means society needs another way to protect itself.

                            Prison is definitely not the answer, but neither is wandering around the streets talking to themselves and waiting for answers from the little voices in their heads.


                            As for suspending the Bill of Rights, I would prefer to suspend our government until we can straighten it out.
                            How many army doctors will be willing to give such guarantees for people who suffer with PTSD?

                            If you recall, the Seal Sniper who became the theme of a recent movie was killed by one such veteran with PTSD

                            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Kyle

                            On February 2, 2013, Kyle and his friend, Chad Littlefield, 35, were shot and killed by Eddie Ray Routh at the Rough Creek Ranch-Lodge-Resort shooting range in Erath County, Texas.[48] Both Kyle and Littlefield were armed with .45-caliber 1911-style pistols when they were killed, but neither gun had been unholstered or fired, and the safety catches were still on. Kyle was killed with a .45-caliber pistol, while Littlefield was shot with a 9mm SIG Sauer pistol. Both guns belonged to Kyle.[9]

                            Routh was a 25-year-old U.S. Marine Corps veteran from Lancaster, Texas.[49] Kyle and Littlefield had reportedly taken Routh to the gun range in an effort to help him with his post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). Routh had been in and out of mental hospitals for at least two years and had been diagnosed with schizophrenia.[9] His family also said he suffered from PTSD from his time in the military.[50][51] On the way to the shooting range, Kyle texted Littlefield, "This dude is straight up nuts." Littlefield responded, "Watch my six", military slang meaning "watch my back".[52] Four months later, while he was in his jail cell, Routh shared with former Erath County Sheriff's Deputy Gene Cole: "I was just riding in the back seat of the truck, and nobody would talk to me. They were just taking me to the range, so I shot them. I feel bad about it, but they wouldn't talk to me. I知 sure they've forgiven me."[9]
                            There is a similar question regarding how far you are willing to go to take the constitutional right of such veteran patients to have guns...
                            My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
                              Typical, now I知 a Nazi because I believe mental illness can be treated.
                              And you call me obsessed.
                              Treated...yes. Cured...no. And that is the crux of the matter, because the safety of law abiding citizens must be paramount.
                              Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by pamak View Post
                                How many army doctors will be willing to give such guarantees for people who suffer with PTSD?

                                If you recall, the Seal Sniper who became the theme of a recent movie was killed by one such veteran with PTSD

                                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Kyle



                                There is a similar question regarding how far you are willing to go to take the constitutional right of such veteran patients to have guns...
                                You're making my arguments for me.

                                No, I would not allow anyone with PTSD to own a firearm, but that opens up a huge can of worms because the American law enforcement community is entirely incapable of protecting anybody, including the veterans with or without PTSD.


                                Once again, for the umpteenth time, the absolute standard is the safety of the entire public, period.
                                Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                                Comment

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